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You know, I wanted to contradict you, then I thought better and didn't want to bicker, but then saw you had gotten 3 downvotes in this short time, which I also
by PavlovsCat 7y ago
You know, I wanted to contradict you, then I thought better and didn't want to bicker, but then saw you had gotten 3 downvotes in this short time, which I also don't like -- so I'll just say what for me is the main thing:
> For the record, I'm not saying that Hong Kongers are wrong for protesting or wanting freedom. I'm just saying they'll fail, and the consequences won't be pretty.
You may be correct, you may not. I wonder if people said the same thing right up to the end of segregation, and other things. But that doesn't matter: might does not make right. Our predictions don't matter, our individual stances do.
> Finally, it is the act itself that matters. When instrumental reason is the sole guide to action, the acts it justifies are robbed of their inherent meanings and thus exist in an ethical vacuum. [..] the moral good of a moral act inheres in the act itself. That is why an act can itself ennoble or corrupt the person who performs it.
-- Joseph Weizenbaum
Everybody dies at some point, anyway. All wealth goes down the drain. What these people are changing, and what cannot be taken from them, is themselves. If the results will "not be pretty", there will be no end to songs about them in our lifetime and maybe that of our children and grandchildren -- the kind of songs that would excactly not get written about people with cushy finance jobs, not even once. This isn't meant as snark against you, it's a compliment for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebKrqHdJaak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebKrqHdJaak
- throwaway3e2tr 7y agoI think looking at Macau is a good example. They are in the same political and cultural position as Hong Kong: 1 country 2 systems, colonized by a European country, speak Cantonese, etc. but there are no protests in Macau. Why? The economy is doing well and people there are relatively well off.
- degoodm 7y agoMacau actually experienced a big recession while Hong Kong has grown steadily, overtaking the US in GDP per capita. [1] [1] https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_#!met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:MAC:HKG:CHN:USA https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_#...
- throwaway3e2tr 7y agoRight, but even after the big recession, it’s still significantly higher than Hong Kong, almost double.
- ourlordcaffeine 7y agoOr is it because they can move to Portugal if they want to, thus feel like they have an escape?
- junar 7y agoMacau's position has been solidly pro-Beijing for over 50 years. I wouldn't understate the political differences here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-3_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12-3_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Assembly_of_Macau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislative_Assembly_of_Macau
- computerfriend 7y agoMacau passed the national security law.
- roboys 7y ago>You may be correct, you may not. I wonder if people said the same thing right up to the end of segregation, and other things. But that doesn't matter: might does not make right. Our predictions don't matter, our individual stances do. Getting rid of segregation has a strong moral foundation and backing... keeping colonial roots in control of HK, not so much.
- vmlinuz 7y agoUh... I'm not sure how wanting protection from arbitrary legal attacks, and the right to choose your own government qualifies as "keeping colonial roots"? If anything, there is a wide feeling here that Hong Kong essentially swapped one colonial power for another, and at least towards the end of the British rule it was more benevolent than CCP rule has become recently...