4 ms·

Disclaimer: I'm mainland Chinese and would like everyone to have universal suffrage. I've seen repeatedly both from people in mainland and "westerners" to assu

• markus_zhang 7y ago
  I'd really worry for HK if the government agrees to all five points.
  • jumelles 7y ago
    > They called for a complete withdrawal of the bill, the withdrawal of the “riot” characterisation of the June 12 protests, the unconditional release of all arrested protesters, the formation of an independent commission of inquiry into police behaviour, as well as universal suffrage. Which of those things would make you worry, and why?
    • yaowenjiaozi 7y ago
      #2 withdrawal of "riot" characterization and #3 unconditional release of all arrested protestors, then by implication #4 independent inquiry into police behaviour. Because if #2 and #3 come to be, then #4 will surely severely censure the police for firing tear gas, bean bag bullets and rubber bullets, which will demoralize the police, greatly damage their ability to maintain law and order and incentivize rioting as the proper form of making demands going forward. Supposedly Hong Kong's laws/ordinances governing the conduct of independent inquiries contain provisions against self-incrimination, which is possibly another means for rioters and their organizers to safeguard themselves against prosecution by presenting at the independent inquiry. I say "supposedly" because while chapter and verse were quoted, I haven't looked them up myself and IANAL anyway. The "protestors" are demanding non-negotiable acceptance of all 5 demands.
      • ferest 7y ago
        Exactly as you said. #2 and #3 make the consequence of doing such protest/riot to zero, then #4 punish police force because of they enforcing the law These would make next protest cost down to zero, and demoralized police hands will be tied to response. This is destroying HK's justice system and legislation system by encouraging solving the interest conflict in the street, because protests could solve the problem can't be solved in the court/Legco, and taking no or minor responsibility. This mobocracy. Even the gov made compromises under the table, they wouldn't claim they accepted them. And there is no leader of protesters, which means even 5 demands are accepted, there could be another group demands for next 5. And asking them in the air instead of asking negotiating on the table, non-negotiable acceptance with no trade-off, all these don't look like protester are truly seeking for talk or solution, or they were designed not to do so.
      • Nasrudith 7y ago
        So accountability is a non-starter? That is quite telling of why they are protesting in the first place.
      • cameronc56 7y ago
        If I had to guess, it is not an inquiry into standard riot police procedure. 2 days ago a video surfaced of two hong kong police officers torturing a 62 year old man: https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/cstj3u/hong_kong_police_tortured_a_patient_in_hospital/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/cstj3u/hong... Do you not think it is fair for protesters to want to launch an inquiry into this behavior? > incentivize rioting as the proper form of making demands going forward what evidence of rioting is there? afaik these protests have been peaceful.
        • yaowenjiaozi 7y ago
          > Do you not think it is fair for protesters to want to launch an inquiry into this behavior? For the torture case, it is reported that the policemen involved have been arrested. In my view, the case should be dealt with under existing laws. An independent inquiry should be launched if/when there is systemic police abuse. > Evidence of rioting Many videos on Youtube. Here's one on last week's airport assault of two mainland Chinese. The two were trapped and tortured for hours and rioters prevented medical/police personnel from getting to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz4-Ld1l7iI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz4-Ld1l7iI Another video of the airport riot. According to reports, the policeman who drew his pistol had had his testicles smashed when he was being beaten up and he is now in hospital. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpQpwQijRzg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpQpwQijRzg Attacking the Legislature building in July. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO16RnQNZmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO16RnQNZmU Attacking the Legislature, view from outside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPU86QO8pUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPU86QO8pUw In June. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG23TIb-pUo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG23TIb-pUo Randomly attacking a policeman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCgEAxwevI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuCgEAxwevI Randomly attacking civilian. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gprNFvBiY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gprNFvBiY It has been like this for weeks. It's funny (in a sad way) reading in this thread posters confidently labeling others brainwashed when they are the ones being fed a controlled narrative.
  • throwaway1997 7y ago
    Why? None of the demands violate the Joint Declaration or Basic Law.