4 ms·

The secret to successful dating is the same as real estate: Location, location, location. I had much better luck dating in central Mexico (where a gringo who h

The secret to successful dating is the same as real estate: Location, location, location. I had much better luck dating in central Mexico (where a gringo who has had a successful career stands out) than in Silicon Valley. Even with a favorable location, the online dating market favors women. When I was in Mexico, it took about 200-300 matches, which became 40-60 active online chats, which became 12-18 in-person dates, to find the woman who became my wife. So about a 6% match to date ratio. As pointed out in the comments to the linked article, this guy did well because he was in New York, which favors men. Technology hot spots (Silicon Valley, Seattle, etc.) tend to favor women. Places that favor Caucasian men include Latin America (Peru being a really good place; Columbia and Mexico also are favorable), Thailand, the Philippines, Eastern Europe, the Dominican Republic, and large parts of Africa. In the US, the deep South (Alabama, Georgia, etc.) are somewhat better for successful men. With places where the ratios favor the women, it takes about 100 messages to get a date (and a lot of you’re too short/too old/etc. canned rejections); to date requires I just send the same spam message over and over (“let’s meet for coffee!”) until someone says yes. The hit ratio is just too low for me to get dating success with anything besides spamming.

MrMember 7y ago
> It took about 200-300 matches, which became 40-60 active online chats, which became 12-18 in-person dates, to find the woman who became my wife. So about a 6% match to date ratio. Stats like those make me not even want to try. Wow.
- strenholme 7y ago
  Yep, and that was in a location which favored me. Online dating is a numbers game. Here’s what made Latin American dating bearable for me: If I hit the point where we met in real life, I made sure to enjoy my time and company with the woman, even if we were not a romantic fit. I made a lot of friends who I could socialize and play cards with, so dating and meeting all these women was a lot of fun. Also, all the interaction made it a lot easier for me to read signals from women; when I met my wife, I was able to see she really wanted me and was already falling in love with me on our first date. Here in the US, women treat dating like a job interview, which I don’t enjoy as much as the “Hey, let me take you to the movies, play cards with you, and have fun socializing together as friends” mindset I had with Latin American women.
  - bksenior 7y ago
    No US women dont, it's just more competitive (looks, power, wealth) so it feels that way. Girls here are like girls everywhere else, what you're likely feeling is not being as high on the mate scale as you are in other markets.
    - strenholme 7y ago
      I beg to differ. People in Latin America, in general, value conversation and connections more than people in the US; the dating scene reflects this (I saw the same dynamics with non-dating connections). A latina girl who didn’t consider me romantically compatible was more likely to still enjoy hanging out and playing cards with me (looking at my online friend list, a lot of them are women I dated in Latin America, including, yes, ones who made it clear they didn’t want to get romantic with me), while the women I dated from online in the US were more like “I’m not meeting my goal of finding a mate here, so I don’t have time to waste on just a friendship”. Yes, there were two woman from church and social circle I dated in the US who I was able to keep productive friendships with (a couple are still my online friend today), so this isn’t a hard and fast rule. But, I have more than twice as many friends online from Latin America who were girls I briefly dated compared to US friends who were girls I briefly dated.
- baddox 7y ago
  Finding a spouse with just 12-18 in-person dates doesn't sound too bad, but yeah, the beginning of that funnel sounds brutal.
- novok 7y ago
  The cost to get that many matches isn't high although, unlike offline dating. It takes a minute or two for a potential match, so if you do it casually as a 30 minute a day hobby, you'll quickly start getting more dates than you know what to deal with. With 1 date = one evening consumed, assuming you probably don't want to go on a first date every night and do something else.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    > The cost to get that many matches isn't high although, unlike offline dating. It takes a minute or two for a potential match, so if you do it casually as a 30 minute a day hobby, you'll quickly start getting more dates than you know what to deal with. As an European male who has tried Tinder A LOT, it was definitely a lot more difficult for me as you make it sound. Getting matches and replies was hard, getting dates was harder and finding someone with chemistry among the dates was even more challenging. That was a lot of time and energy spent in vain for nothing. I've lost count on the number of girls that didn't show up on dates or cancelled last minute to never reply again which was an exhausting and sad experience for me. Later, after discovering game, I started approaching girls everywhere and my success skyrocketed, with almost zero extra effort other than going outside and saying Hi. Online dating heavily favors females and unless you're in the top 10% of attractive males on that app, you're in for a pretty dehumanizing experience.
- sukilot 7y ago
  It's a 100% app to wedding ratio. Best stats one could hope for -- not too low, not too high.
narrator 7y ago
While traveling, I got laid off Tinder the second day in town in Eastern Europe and she was above average looks. Male/female ratios are really skewed in those countries.
- strenholme 7y ago
  I don’t consider “getting laid” a significant accomplishment. I think dating is a two way street. Women, by and large, do not want a short term sexual relationship. Which is why I’m careful not to sleep with someone unless I know I am open to marrying the girl; otherwise, I put myself in a position where I can really hurt some lady’s feelings because I let my “small head” make decisions for me. If a girl does want a purely sexual relationship, such as one girl I dated who was struggling with a drug addiction, that usually means they have some emotional issues. In that particular case, I did not sleep with her, but did what I could to help her emotionally: I let her take naps at my place because she had issues sleeping, and I had her make friends with some of my friends in a youth group I was going to so she would have more connections and friendships to help her with her emotional issues. When dating, it’s important for me to remember the people I am interacting with are human beings whose feelings are just as valid as my feelings.
  - throwawayasjhsd 7y ago
    This is pretty wrong. Most women I've known (friends/friends of friends) have pursued short term encounters at least once. Women enjoy sex too, as frequently as men. What turns us on is different, but that is a different point.
  - lkjhdcba 7y ago
    >if a girl does want a purely sexual relationship [...] that usually means they have some emotional issues Sorry what the hell are you talking about
  - sp527 7y ago
    This is mind-bogglingly fallacious. Most women enjoy sex just as much as men, if not more. And plenty of them are open to and excited by casual encounters with men (certain types; honestly probably not you, based on what you’ve written). There doesn’t have to be something wrong with them for that to be the case. You’re making some really sexist assumptions premised on what appears to be an extremely Puritanical view of acceptable human behavior.
DenisM 7y ago
Thank you, good sir, for the selfless effort you put into conducting and publishing this research for the benefit of mankind. I mean, not entirely selfless, but still, thank you. Changes how you look at things.
maximente 7y ago
assuming you're Caucasian, you also definitely took advantage of that and all it conveys (assumptions about status, avg height > some other races, etc.). quick thought experiment: would say, a Hispanic looking person have the same success even if born in US? seems doubtful, so can't be purely location, but must include other factors. we compete for mates in relatively tight geographic locations and you're probably 95th percentile height/wealth/prestige in Mexico by merely showing up with an average US height and household income, easily 99th percentile with software engineering type income. so you arbitraged your attributes by moving to a place with more favorable comparisons to the local population to meet more women. no complaints from me on that part but that's not purely location, you're omitting crucial parts of what influenced the outcome.
- InvaderFizz 7y ago
  > we compete for mates in relatively tight geographic locations and you're probably 95th percentile height/wealth/prestige in Mexico by merely showing up with an average US height and household income, easily 99th percentile with software engineering type income. so you arbitraged your attributes by moving to a place with more favorable comparisons to the local population to meet more women. You're not wrong. I took largely the same approach as the parent commenter and ended up married to a Mexicana. My funnel ended up being relatively similar ratio to his, spread out over multiple countries over two years. I looked at it as probabilities game and just optimized my odds by looking in areas that: 1. What we call traditional gender/marriage roles, they just call normal. 2. I was a luxury/exotic good instead of another face in the crowd. > would say, a Hispanic looking person have the same success even if born in US? seems doubtful, so can't be purely location, but must include other factors. If that Hispanic person had the same 99th percentile software engineer income and a firm command of the Spanish language: I would say they would be in a weaker starting position in the funnel, but their success ratio after initial match would be significantly higher than the gringo with middling at best Spanish (me).
  - strenholme 7y ago
    It’s not just an increased mating value (MV) because of relative economic prestige and more height. It’s also because the Hispanic culture is more open to relationships (both friendships and romantic ones), and because they don’t have the sexual hangups US culture has. I see this in my Facebook feed: My Latina friends are not afraid to tell sexual jokes or have sexually charged images on their timeline (one of the girls I dated, in fact, is a nude photographer); my US friends, on the other hand, never tell dirty jokes, and they only time they talk about sex is in relation to a sexual harassment allegation or a sexual assault story (my Latina friends also do this, but they aren’t afraid to admit they like sex).
jammygit 7y ago
I used to get about a 50% response rate, which probably led to 1-2 dates per week, and eventually getting married. At first though, it was more like a 5% response rate and 1 date per 2 months. I think profile writing, picture selection, and opening messages are a silly skill that you're forced to learn to get your foot in the door - like whiteboarding maybe?
justlikehoney 7y ago
Not white and not in tech, but from my own observations I'd say that most guys in tech, especially white guys, actually do better in SF/ the Bay Area / Silicon Valley than in NYC when it comes do dating. The male-female ratio in NYC is also not as good as people think; once you drill down to the 20-40 year old age group, there's actually more men than women in NYC. NYC being a dating paradise for men is a misconception that was spread by that Jonathan Soma singles map that went viral over 10 years ago. I've noticed guys in tech do better in the Bay Area than in places like NYC because 1) the competition is generally weaker, and 2) they can actually connect on a meaningful level with the women they meet. Your average guy in tech is not going to get along with the typical high-maintenance, pop culture obsessed. SEC sorority girl transplant or Italian/Jewish-American princess from Long Island. Every tech guy I've met who's moved from the Bay Area or Seattle to NYC in hopes of improving their dating life has regretted it after a few months or even years of futility.

MrMember 7y ago

> It took about 200-300 matches, which became 40-60 active online chats, which became 12-18 in-person dates, to find the woman who became my wife. So about a 6% match to date ratio. Stats like those make me not even want to try. Wow.

strenholme 7y ago
Yep, and that was in a location which favored me. Online dating is a numbers game. Here’s what made Latin American dating bearable for me: If I hit the point where we met in real life, I made sure to enjoy my time and company with the woman, even if we were not a romantic fit. I made a lot of friends who I could socialize and play cards with, so dating and meeting all these women was a lot of fun. Also, all the interaction made it a lot easier for me to read signals from women; when I met my wife, I was able to see she really wanted me and was already falling in love with me on our first date. Here in the US, women treat dating like a job interview, which I don’t enjoy as much as the “Hey, let me take you to the movies, play cards with you, and have fun socializing together as friends” mindset I had with Latin American women.
- bksenior 7y ago
  No US women dont, it's just more competitive (looks, power, wealth) so it feels that way. Girls here are like girls everywhere else, what you're likely feeling is not being as high on the mate scale as you are in other markets.
  - strenholme 7y ago
    I beg to differ. People in Latin America, in general, value conversation and connections more than people in the US; the dating scene reflects this (I saw the same dynamics with non-dating connections). A latina girl who didn’t consider me romantically compatible was more likely to still enjoy hanging out and playing cards with me (looking at my online friend list, a lot of them are women I dated in Latin America, including, yes, ones who made it clear they didn’t want to get romantic with me), while the women I dated from online in the US were more like “I’m not meeting my goal of finding a mate here, so I don’t have time to waste on just a friendship”. Yes, there were two woman from church and social circle I dated in the US who I was able to keep productive friendships with (a couple are still my online friend today), so this isn’t a hard and fast rule. But, I have more than twice as many friends online from Latin America who were girls I briefly dated compared to US friends who were girls I briefly dated.
baddox 7y ago
Finding a spouse with just 12-18 in-person dates doesn't sound too bad, but yeah, the beginning of that funnel sounds brutal.
novok 7y ago
The cost to get that many matches isn't high although, unlike offline dating. It takes a minute or two for a potential match, so if you do it casually as a 30 minute a day hobby, you'll quickly start getting more dates than you know what to deal with. With 1 date = one evening consumed, assuming you probably don't want to go on a first date every night and do something else.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  > The cost to get that many matches isn't high although, unlike offline dating. It takes a minute or two for a potential match, so if you do it casually as a 30 minute a day hobby, you'll quickly start getting more dates than you know what to deal with. As an European male who has tried Tinder A LOT, it was definitely a lot more difficult for me as you make it sound. Getting matches and replies was hard, getting dates was harder and finding someone with chemistry among the dates was even more challenging. That was a lot of time and energy spent in vain for nothing. I've lost count on the number of girls that didn't show up on dates or cancelled last minute to never reply again which was an exhausting and sad experience for me. Later, after discovering game, I started approaching girls everywhere and my success skyrocketed, with almost zero extra effort other than going outside and saying Hi. Online dating heavily favors females and unless you're in the top 10% of attractive males on that app, you're in for a pretty dehumanizing experience.
sukilot 7y ago
It's a 100% app to wedding ratio. Best stats one could hope for -- not too low, not too high.

narrator 7y ago

While traveling, I got laid off Tinder the second day in town in Eastern Europe and she was above average looks. Male/female ratios are really skewed in those countries.

strenholme 7y ago
I don’t consider “getting laid” a significant accomplishment. I think dating is a two way street. Women, by and large, do not want a short term sexual relationship. Which is why I’m careful not to sleep with someone unless I know I am open to marrying the girl; otherwise, I put myself in a position where I can really hurt some lady’s feelings because I let my “small head” make decisions for me. If a girl does want a purely sexual relationship, such as one girl I dated who was struggling with a drug addiction, that usually means they have some emotional issues. In that particular case, I did not sleep with her, but did what I could to help her emotionally: I let her take naps at my place because she had issues sleeping, and I had her make friends with some of my friends in a youth group I was going to so she would have more connections and friendships to help her with her emotional issues. When dating, it’s important for me to remember the people I am interacting with are human beings whose feelings are just as valid as my feelings.
- throwawayasjhsd 7y ago
  This is pretty wrong. Most women I've known (friends/friends of friends) have pursued short term encounters at least once. Women enjoy sex too, as frequently as men. What turns us on is different, but that is a different point.
- lkjhdcba 7y ago
  >if a girl does want a purely sexual relationship [...] that usually means they have some emotional issues Sorry what the hell are you talking about
- sp527 7y ago
  This is mind-bogglingly fallacious. Most women enjoy sex just as much as men, if not more. And plenty of them are open to and excited by casual encounters with men (certain types; honestly probably not you, based on what you’ve written). There doesn’t have to be something wrong with them for that to be the case. You’re making some really sexist assumptions premised on what appears to be an extremely Puritanical view of acceptable human behavior.

DenisM 7y ago

Thank you, good sir, for the selfless effort you put into conducting and publishing this research for the benefit of mankind. I mean, not entirely selfless, but still, thank you. Changes how you look at things.

maximente 7y ago

assuming you're Caucasian, you also definitely took advantage of that and all it conveys (assumptions about status, avg height > some other races, etc.). quick thought experiment: would say, a Hispanic looking person have the same success even if born in US? seems doubtful, so can't be purely location, but must include other factors. we compete for mates in relatively tight geographic locations and you're probably 95th percentile height/wealth/prestige in Mexico by merely showing up with an average US height and household income, easily 99th percentile with software engineering type income. so you arbitraged your attributes by moving to a place with more favorable comparisons to the local population to meet more women. no complaints from me on that part but that's not purely location, you're omitting crucial parts of what influenced the outcome.

InvaderFizz 7y ago
> we compete for mates in relatively tight geographic locations and you're probably 95th percentile height/wealth/prestige in Mexico by merely showing up with an average US height and household income, easily 99th percentile with software engineering type income. so you arbitraged your attributes by moving to a place with more favorable comparisons to the local population to meet more women. You're not wrong. I took largely the same approach as the parent commenter and ended up married to a Mexicana. My funnel ended up being relatively similar ratio to his, spread out over multiple countries over two years. I looked at it as probabilities game and just optimized my odds by looking in areas that: 1. What we call traditional gender/marriage roles, they just call normal. 2. I was a luxury/exotic good instead of another face in the crowd. > would say, a Hispanic looking person have the same success even if born in US? seems doubtful, so can't be purely location, but must include other factors. If that Hispanic person had the same 99th percentile software engineer income and a firm command of the Spanish language: I would say they would be in a weaker starting position in the funnel, but their success ratio after initial match would be significantly higher than the gringo with middling at best Spanish (me).
- strenholme 7y ago
  It’s not just an increased mating value (MV) because of relative economic prestige and more height. It’s also because the Hispanic culture is more open to relationships (both friendships and romantic ones), and because they don’t have the sexual hangups US culture has. I see this in my Facebook feed: My Latina friends are not afraid to tell sexual jokes or have sexually charged images on their timeline (one of the girls I dated, in fact, is a nude photographer); my US friends, on the other hand, never tell dirty jokes, and they only time they talk about sex is in relation to a sexual harassment allegation or a sexual assault story (my Latina friends also do this, but they aren’t afraid to admit they like sex).

jammygit 7y ago

I used to get about a 50% response rate, which probably led to 1-2 dates per week, and eventually getting married. At first though, it was more like a 5% response rate and 1 date per 2 months. I think profile writing, picture selection, and opening messages are a silly skill that you're forced to learn to get your foot in the door - like whiteboarding maybe?

justlikehoney 7y ago

Not white and not in tech, but from my own observations I'd say that most guys in tech, especially white guys, actually do better in SF/ the Bay Area / Silicon Valley than in NYC when it comes do dating. The male-female ratio in NYC is also not as good as people think; once you drill down to the 20-40 year old age group, there's actually more men than women in NYC. NYC being a dating paradise for men is a misconception that was spread by that Jonathan Soma singles map that went viral over 10 years ago. I've noticed guys in tech do better in the Bay Area than in places like NYC because 1) the competition is generally weaker, and 2) they can actually connect on a meaningful level with the women they meet. Your average guy in tech is not going to get along with the typical high-maintenance, pop culture obsessed. SEC sorority girl transplant or Italian/Jewish-American princess from Long Island. Every tech guy I've met who's moved from the Bay Area or Seattle to NYC in hopes of improving their dating life has regretted it after a few months or even years of futility.