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Come on. This wasn’t a hidden secret. I can believe not everyone who did business with Epstein after he left prison was aware, but this wasn’t a secret; it was

Come on. This wasn’t a hidden secret. I can believe not everyone who did business with Epstein after he left prison was aware, but this wasn’t a secret; it was widely reported (the truth is, many people just didn’t care) why he went to jail. The circles he traveled in might have changed, but from my own experiences on the periphery of the wealthy/connected, stuff like this comes up. You’ll note Ito never claims he wasn’t aware of the allegations or the guilty plea, he simply says he didn’t ever see any evidence of that behavior. Plenty of people would pause before accepting money from someone like Epstein and plenty of people, as we’ve seen, did not. Those that did aren’t responsible for any of Epstein’s crimes, but it’s more than fair that they answer questions about why they took money from someone like him — even if the answers are uncomfortable.

TAForObvReasons 7y ago
This is probably not the best time to point to SV and the influence of Milner and the Kremlin, but it's fascinating to read PG's comments in the 2011 discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143604 and how he seems to be comfortable with the Kremlin connection even though others seemed to have known at the time.
- atemerev 7y ago
  So? There are many other external investors in the US companies, most importantly from China and Saudi Arabia. This is not illegal. And US-Russia relationships were a lot different in 2011.
  - TAForObvReasons 7y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143897 and PG's reply captures the problem well: > Basically, Milner is a crook, and if there was any justice in the world he and Usmanov would be in jail for what they have done. But there isn't, and there are people in the Valley who are willing to overlook ethics if you have enough money. The fact that Milner is now working with YC is a sad testament to that fact. PG: VCs are not so high minded that they're offended by who his LPs are, believe me. > Actually, it would seem to be just as simple as he implies. VCs in the valley care only about money and don't give a hoot about morality. You haven't debated the fact that Milner is linked to the looting of state resources; you've simply said that anyone else would also take his money if they could. PG: even if Yuri's money was tainted in some way, it was being used as a counterweight to another bad thing. This is the ultimate problem and it has nothing to do with US-Russia relations but rather with dealing with known seedy characters
stickfigure 7y ago
AFAIK, Epstein was convicted in Florida in 2008 of hiring a 16-year-old prostitute. This may be a controversial opinion, but... in the great list of mortal sins, I don't find it ranks particularly high. Sure it's not a great look. But I think prostitution should be a woman's choice, and 16 is the age of sexual consent in 32 out of 50 US states. It's hard for me to get too worked up about something that would have had far less legal consequences one state over in Alabama. So while it's a red flag, I'm not sure the conviction alone would stop me from accepting grant money. You might feel differently, that's fine. To me, money is pretty amoral. These other things that have come out since - rapes, fourteen-year-olds - if true, are much more disturbing. But that wasn't part of the dialogue in 2013.
- msghacq 7y ago
  A 16 year old can't be a prostitute (they can't consent to have sex with an adult). It's called child rape, and yes most people consider that to rank particularly high on the moral failings list.
  - viklove 7y ago
    > 16 is the age of sexual consent in 32 out of 50 US states I think you may have glossed over this part of the comment you're responding to
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > A 16 year old can't be a prostitute (they can't consent to have sex with an adult). Legally, they can in much of the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_Unite...
    - romwell 7y ago
      Nitpick all you want, a 16 year old cannot legally consent to prostitution. And if they could, the laws would need to be rewritten, because that would make child rape legal. Repeat after me: a 16 year old having sex with a 55 year old for money is child abuse.
ryacko 7y ago
The really open secret part is the weirdness about his homes. Nude art, chessboard with half nude figurines of his staff.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
smacktoward 7y ago
Not to mention that, if you believe Ethan Zuckerman’s account of events (http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2019/08/20/on-me-and-the-media-lab/ http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2019/08/20/on-me-and-the-...), he specifically warned Ito about Epstein’s history in 2014.

TAForObvReasons 7y ago

This is probably not the best time to point to SV and the influence of Milner and the Kremlin, but it's fascinating to read PG's comments in the 2011 discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143604 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143604 and how he seems to be comfortable with the Kremlin connection even though others seemed to have known at the time.

atemerev 7y ago
So? There are many other external investors in the US companies, most importantly from China and Saudi Arabia. This is not illegal. And US-Russia relationships were a lot different in 2011.
- TAForObvReasons 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3143897 and PG's reply captures the problem well: > Basically, Milner is a crook, and if there was any justice in the world he and Usmanov would be in jail for what they have done. But there isn't, and there are people in the Valley who are willing to overlook ethics if you have enough money. The fact that Milner is now working with YC is a sad testament to that fact. PG: VCs are not so high minded that they're offended by who his LPs are, believe me. > Actually, it would seem to be just as simple as he implies. VCs in the valley care only about money and don't give a hoot about morality. You haven't debated the fact that Milner is linked to the looting of state resources; you've simply said that anyone else would also take his money if they could. PG: even if Yuri's money was tainted in some way, it was being used as a counterweight to another bad thing. This is the ultimate problem and it has nothing to do with US-Russia relations but rather with dealing with known seedy characters

stickfigure 7y ago

AFAIK, Epstein was convicted in Florida in 2008 of hiring a 16-year-old prostitute. This may be a controversial opinion, but... in the great list of mortal sins, I don't find it ranks particularly high. Sure it's not a great look. But I think prostitution should be a woman's choice, and 16 is the age of sexual consent in 32 out of 50 US states. It's hard for me to get too worked up about something that would have had far less legal consequences one state over in Alabama. So while it's a red flag, I'm not sure the conviction alone would stop me from accepting grant money. You might feel differently, that's fine. To me, money is pretty amoral. These other things that have come out since - rapes, fourteen-year-olds - if true, are much more disturbing. But that wasn't part of the dialogue in 2013.

msghacq 7y ago
A 16 year old can't be a prostitute (they can't consent to have sex with an adult). It's called child rape, and yes most people consider that to rank particularly high on the moral failings list.
- viklove 7y ago
  > 16 is the age of sexual consent in 32 out of 50 US states I think you may have glossed over this part of the comment you're responding to
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > A 16 year old can't be a prostitute (they can't consent to have sex with an adult). Legally, they can in much of the United States. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_Unite...
  - romwell 7y ago
    Nitpick all you want, a 16 year old cannot legally consent to prostitution. And if they could, the laws would need to be rewritten, because that would make child rape legal. Repeat after me: a 16 year old having sex with a 55 year old for money is child abuse.

ryacko 7y ago

The really open secret part is the weirdness about his homes. Nude art, chessboard with half nude figurines of his staff.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

smacktoward 7y ago

Not to mention that, if you believe Ethan Zuckerman’s account of events (http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2019/08/20/on-me-and-the-media-lab/ http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2019/08/20/on-me-and-the-...), he specifically warned Ito about Epstein’s history in 2014.