7 ms·

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed The primary contributor t

Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular disease: agreed It starts earlier than a lot of people thought: agreed The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Mind linking to something that shows this? That doesn't agree with the results from the UK study on effects of nicotine versus smoking which puts nicotine's effects at about 5% of the risk of smoking.

atomi 7y ago
You can test this yourself. Test your blood pressure prior to vaping and then after. If you choose to ignore all else you could argue the rise in BP is transient and not concerning. I personally would not bet my life on it.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  I don't know if identifying whether or not something transiently raise my blood pressure is a better measure than a comprehensive report by the UK equivalent of the NIH.
- mcguire 7y ago
  Jogging in place will also transiently raise your blood pressure.
  - carapace 7y ago
    Yeah, but it's supposed to. Inhaling something and then your BP goes up means you should not inhale that thing, eh?
  - posterboy 7y ago
    Indeed, too much training can be counter productive. Vice versa, runners can't just stop and settle down, neither after a race nor after a carreer, or they'd risk heart failure. I cannot explain it but I think it's common knowledge.
    - MertsA 7y ago
      Source?
  - cma 7y ago
    But it then over time it lowers your resting blood pressure. Not sure nicotine would since most users constantly use it (and it may not with occasional use either, I'm not sure).
- walshemj 7y ago
  Interesting so if my BP crashes I should smoke or vape :-) I have had a BP crash I was cooking the Christmas dinner (the full works ) and accidently forgot I had taken my bp pills that morning and took a second set. I passed out and vomited about 10 mins after sitting down to eat
tryitnow 7y ago
Is that 5% of the risk of cardiovascular disease or 5% of risk from any disease?
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  Total risk
abstractbarista 7y ago
This is definitely a point which needs more exploring. Seems to me most damage from smoking is all the crap in smoking. The chemical nicotine - by itself - transiently raises BP, feels nice, and that's about it. It's also only a part of the addictiveness of smoking. Probably a small part, as everyone I know who has consumed nicotine in any form has no trouble without it if they vape, but often shows discomfort/restlessness if they smoke. Amazingly, this holds true for those who consume far more nicotine through vaping compared to others that get it through smoking.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  I think I remember reading some research at some point that backs this up, if I remember correctly they found it was a lot easier to get rats addicted to smoking than nicotine
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    Yep evilterran linked to the study I was thinking about.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  Is there any research on what other chemicals might be addictive?
  - dmix 7y ago
    There's research that the heat alone in some forms of abuse of smoking things can cause lung issues. The difference I've found with vaping is both a) I use a very cool setting so it's not nearly as hot as a cigarette (which you can't control the temperature of) and b) I used far less nicotine, starting from 24mg->3mg in the course of a year. I can easily stop vaping for days at a time now without having a strong pang of nicotine dependency which I used to have.
  - EvilTerran 7y ago
    Here's one: https://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593 https://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593 Abstract: Nicotine is the major neuroactive compound of tobacco, which has, by itself, weak reinforcing properties. It is known that levels of the enzymes monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and MAO-B are reduced in the platelets and brains of smokers and that substances, other than nicotine, present in tobacco smoke have MAO-inhibitory activities. Here, we report that inhibition of MAO dramatically and specifically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats. These effects were more prominent in rats selected for high responsiveness to novelty than in rats with low responsiveness to novelty. The results suggest that the inhibition of MAO activity by compounds present in tobacco smoke may combine with nicotine to produce the intense reinforcing properties of cigarette smoking that lead to addiction.
nabnob 7y ago
Could you link the study you're talking about? I found this - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95-safer-than-smoking-claims-public-health-england https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95... But the only "study" referenced comparing smoking and nicotine was a video experiment that didn't even use humans.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes Click on "how safe are e-cigarettes" which link to two studies, one by the royal physicians and one by public health England. The one by the PHE is 118 pages and is a summary of all the available evidence as of 2015. And the RCP does something similar in 189 pages. They do not exclusively focus on comparing the relative harm, but that is a large section in each.
posterboy 7y ago
If you just look at what a pipe looks like if not cleaned properly, and picture the lungs looking the same, maybe the blood vessels too, then nicotene seems like the least of the problems. However, confounding factors means that a simple additive measure cannot illuminate the problem. Short breath alone, which invariably follows the exposure to aggressive gases, leads to contraction of the vessels and increased heart rate, to keep up the oxygen level in vital parts. Even if tar should not enter the blood streem in a healthy tester, which I'm not sure, the built up tar pits so to speak are cozy breeding grounds for all kinds of pathogens. Excess water in the lungs, or vice versa dry lungs impact the imunosystem as well.
Medicalidiot 7y ago
>The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Where did I say that? I don't what UK study you're referring to, the ones I used are published in American and Middle Eastern journals.

atomi 7y ago

You can test this yourself. Test your blood pressure prior to vaping and then after. If you choose to ignore all else you could argue the rise in BP is transient and not concerning. I personally would not bet my life on it.

JamesBarney 7y ago
I don't know if identifying whether or not something transiently raise my blood pressure is a better measure than a comprehensive report by the UK equivalent of the NIH.
mcguire 7y ago
Jogging in place will also transiently raise your blood pressure.
- carapace 7y ago
  Yeah, but it's supposed to. Inhaling something and then your BP goes up means you should not inhale that thing, eh?
- posterboy 7y ago
  Indeed, too much training can be counter productive. Vice versa, runners can't just stop and settle down, neither after a race nor after a carreer, or they'd risk heart failure. I cannot explain it but I think it's common knowledge.
  - MertsA 7y ago
    Source?
- cma 7y ago
  But it then over time it lowers your resting blood pressure. Not sure nicotine would since most users constantly use it (and it may not with occasional use either, I'm not sure).
walshemj 7y ago
Interesting so if my BP crashes I should smoke or vape :-) I have had a BP crash I was cooking the Christmas dinner (the full works ) and accidently forgot I had taken my bp pills that morning and took a second set. I passed out and vomited about 10 mins after sitting down to eat

tryitnow 7y ago

Is that 5% of the risk of cardiovascular disease or 5% of risk from any disease?

JamesBarney 7y ago
Total risk

abstractbarista 7y ago

This is definitely a point which needs more exploring. Seems to me most damage from smoking is all the crap in smoking. The chemical nicotine - by itself - transiently raises BP, feels nice, and that's about it. It's also only a part of the addictiveness of smoking. Probably a small part, as everyone I know who has consumed nicotine in any form has no trouble without it if they vape, but often shows discomfort/restlessness if they smoke. Amazingly, this holds true for those who consume far more nicotine through vaping compared to others that get it through smoking.

JamesBarney 7y ago
I think I remember reading some research at some point that backs this up, if I remember correctly they found it was a lot easier to get rats addicted to smoking than nicotine
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  Yep evilterran linked to the study I was thinking about.
mrfusion 7y ago
Is there any research on what other chemicals might be addictive?
- dmix 7y ago
  There's research that the heat alone in some forms of abuse of smoking things can cause lung issues. The difference I've found with vaping is both a) I use a very cool setting so it's not nearly as hot as a cigarette (which you can't control the temperature of) and b) I used far less nicotine, starting from 24mg->3mg in the course of a year. I can easily stop vaping for days at a time now without having a strong pang of nicotine dependency which I used to have.
- EvilTerran 7y ago
  Here's one: https://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593 https://www.jneurosci.org/content/25/38/8593 Abstract: Nicotine is the major neuroactive compound of tobacco, which has, by itself, weak reinforcing properties. It is known that levels of the enzymes monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and MAO-B are reduced in the platelets and brains of smokers and that substances, other than nicotine, present in tobacco smoke have MAO-inhibitory activities. Here, we report that inhibition of MAO dramatically and specifically increases the motivation to self-administer nicotine in rats. These effects were more prominent in rats selected for high responsiveness to novelty than in rats with low responsiveness to novelty. The results suggest that the inhibition of MAO activity by compounds present in tobacco smoke may combine with nicotine to produce the intense reinforcing properties of cigarette smoking that lead to addiction.

nabnob 7y ago

Could you link the study you're talking about? I found this - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95-safer-than-smoking-claims-public-health-england https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/28/vaping-is-95... But the only "study" referenced comparing smoking and nicotine was a video experiment that didn't even use humans.

JamesBarney 7y ago
https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes Click on "how safe are e-cigarettes" which link to two studies, one by the royal physicians and one by public health England. The one by the PHE is 118 pages and is a summary of all the available evidence as of 2015. And the RCP does something similar in 189 pages. They do not exclusively focus on comparing the relative harm, but that is a large section in each.

posterboy 7y ago

If you just look at what a pipe looks like if not cleaned properly, and picture the lungs looking the same, maybe the blood vessels too, then nicotene seems like the least of the problems. However, confounding factors means that a simple additive measure cannot illuminate the problem. Short breath alone, which invariably follows the exposure to aggressive gases, leads to contraction of the vessels and increased heart rate, to keep up the oxygen level in vital parts. Even if tar should not enter the blood streem in a healthy tester, which I'm not sure, the built up tar pits so to speak are cozy breeding grounds for all kinds of pathogens. Excess water in the lungs, or vice versa dry lungs impact the imunosystem as well.

Medicalidiot 7y ago

>The primary contributor to smoking's detrimental effects on the cardiovascular system is nicotine: disagree Where did I say that? I don't what UK study you're referring to, the ones I used are published in American and Middle Eastern journals.