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We should be more worried about voter id. I still don't understand how you can vote without a legal id. I mean look at California, they require zero proof of yo

We should be more worried about voter id. I still don't understand how you can vote without a legal id. I mean look at California, they require zero proof of your identity to vote according to Wikipedia. That's bonkers to me. In my home country Bolivia, we are required to present a valid national ID to vote.

PeterisP 7y ago
Well, USA doesn't have a reasonable national legal ID and consider it unacceptable to implement one.
raisedbyninjas 7y ago
The US does not have a national ID due to privacy fears. Stealing an election by casting fraudulent ballots still requires forging documents and hundreds of conspirators willing to commit a felony even in the tightest races.
jeffdavis 7y ago
The reason is that we don't have any universal ID and some people think requiring an ID is a burden on exercising your rights. Others like you worry that, without ID, there will be lots of fraud. I keep hearing that there is not very much fraud, but I don't know how they know without a baseline that's verified with ID. I also don't know why voter ID is too much of a burden, but IDs for gun purchases are not. If they are both rights shouldn't they have similar standards for checking eligibility?
- standardUser 7y ago
  I don't know how you imagine voting works, but there are in fact records. You can't vote unless you are registered. The specifics varies wildly state-to-state, making it hard to discuss in detail. But the gist of it is that if you are not legally eligible to vote, it's difficult to do so. And the penalties are so extreme that casting a single fraudulent vote is absurdly risky, making it a very unappealing crime. Especially since virtually zero elections are decided by so few votes. Elections are audited and fraud is found in only very, very rare cases, hence the widespread confidence that voter fraud is a minuscule issue. Other election issues are very real. By any metric, the number of eligible voters who are denied the right to vote dwarfs the number of people who cast ineligible votes.
  - jeffdavis 7y ago
    How do you audit without IDs? Like, why not just find some dead person who is still registered, and vote in their stead? And how do they verify citizenship, or other elligibility requirements? Can you just specify a bugus address so they don't catch you?
- drak0n1c 7y ago
  Thankfully, recent lawsuits are at least forcing counties that notoriously have more registered voters than they have age 18+ citizens to clean up their voter registrations. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_begins_removing_5_million_inactive_voters_on_its_rolls__140602.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_...
lightbyte 7y ago
In the US elections are run by the states, and unfortunately a certain consistent set of them are well known for making it extremely difficult for certain groups of people to vote. Since voter ids would be given by the states, there is historical evidence to suggest those specific states can not be trusted to not use said ids as a way to discriminate against those they do not want to vote.
- wanabroboticist 7y ago
  Sorry but this is complete and utter bullshit. Don't fall for the lies and propaganda put out by the social engineers within the democratic party. But of course me pointing this out to you will probably only make you harden your stance even more, because if you're in that party, the veil is firmly over your eyes. It's a cult built around feelings and imagination at this point, not logic and reality. These corrupt politicians in the democratic party commit fraud on large scales, using your feelings to manipulate you. One example of many of their manipulative, fraudulent nature is attempting to rig the 2016 election for Hillary, pushing Sanders out. The reason they don't want a voter ID is so that they can commit election fraud, but they appeal to your emotions by saying disenfranchised people are the reason. This is painfully obvious to anyone with a logical brain who can recognize these patterns on large scales. Sociopaths exist. They are driven by their desire to be at the top, lording over other people. Where might they find themselves in positions of said power? Could it be in politics? Within the party that prides itself on being very socially oriented? Seems like a good place to climb to the top if you're a good social engineer (a sociopath), does it not? Would they do and say anything to rise to the top? Most sociopaths certainly would. Why is it that the most corrupt, downtrodden cities are very blue? What happened to places like Baltimore? Where is all that money going? https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-school-audit-reaction-20121008-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-school-audit... For the record, I'm not saying any of these things out of hate. I'm saying these things out of love. I want every single person on this planet to thrive. But that can't happen as long as people remain useful idiots by supporting causes based on emotions instead of logic. People smarter than you can easily manipulate you through your emotions. It would be extremely naive to deny this possibility (reality). Edit for the downvoters: How's that Russian collusion narrative going? You're being manipulated.

PeterisP 7y ago

Well, USA doesn't have a reasonable national legal ID and consider it unacceptable to implement one.

raisedbyninjas 7y ago

The US does not have a national ID due to privacy fears. Stealing an election by casting fraudulent ballots still requires forging documents and hundreds of conspirators willing to commit a felony even in the tightest races.

jeffdavis 7y ago

The reason is that we don't have any universal ID and some people think requiring an ID is a burden on exercising your rights. Others like you worry that, without ID, there will be lots of fraud. I keep hearing that there is not very much fraud, but I don't know how they know without a baseline that's verified with ID. I also don't know why voter ID is too much of a burden, but IDs for gun purchases are not. If they are both rights shouldn't they have similar standards for checking eligibility?

standardUser 7y ago
I don't know how you imagine voting works, but there are in fact records. You can't vote unless you are registered. The specifics varies wildly state-to-state, making it hard to discuss in detail. But the gist of it is that if you are not legally eligible to vote, it's difficult to do so. And the penalties are so extreme that casting a single fraudulent vote is absurdly risky, making it a very unappealing crime. Especially since virtually zero elections are decided by so few votes. Elections are audited and fraud is found in only very, very rare cases, hence the widespread confidence that voter fraud is a minuscule issue. Other election issues are very real. By any metric, the number of eligible voters who are denied the right to vote dwarfs the number of people who cast ineligible votes.
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  How do you audit without IDs? Like, why not just find some dead person who is still registered, and vote in their stead? And how do they verify citizenship, or other elligibility requirements? Can you just specify a bugus address so they don't catch you?
drak0n1c 7y ago
Thankfully, recent lawsuits are at least forcing counties that notoriously have more registered voters than they have age 18+ citizens to clean up their voter registrations. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_begins_removing_5_million_inactive_voters_on_its_rolls__140602.html https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/06/20/calif_...

lightbyte 7y ago

In the US elections are run by the states, and unfortunately a certain consistent set of them are well known for making it extremely difficult for certain groups of people to vote. Since voter ids would be given by the states, there is historical evidence to suggest those specific states can not be trusted to not use said ids as a way to discriminate against those they do not want to vote.

wanabroboticist 7y ago
Sorry but this is complete and utter bullshit. Don't fall for the lies and propaganda put out by the social engineers within the democratic party. But of course me pointing this out to you will probably only make you harden your stance even more, because if you're in that party, the veil is firmly over your eyes. It's a cult built around feelings and imagination at this point, not logic and reality. These corrupt politicians in the democratic party commit fraud on large scales, using your feelings to manipulate you. One example of many of their manipulative, fraudulent nature is attempting to rig the 2016 election for Hillary, pushing Sanders out. The reason they don't want a voter ID is so that they can commit election fraud, but they appeal to your emotions by saying disenfranchised people are the reason. This is painfully obvious to anyone with a logical brain who can recognize these patterns on large scales. Sociopaths exist. They are driven by their desire to be at the top, lording over other people. Where might they find themselves in positions of said power? Could it be in politics? Within the party that prides itself on being very socially oriented? Seems like a good place to climb to the top if you're a good social engineer (a sociopath), does it not? Would they do and say anything to rise to the top? Most sociopaths certainly would. Why is it that the most corrupt, downtrodden cities are very blue? What happened to places like Baltimore? Where is all that money going? https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-school-audit-reaction-20121008-story.html https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-school-audit... For the record, I'm not saying any of these things out of hate. I'm saying these things out of love. I want every single person on this planet to thrive. But that can't happen as long as people remain useful idiots by supporting causes based on emotions instead of logic. People smarter than you can easily manipulate you through your emotions. It would be extremely naive to deny this possibility (reality). Edit for the downvoters: How's that Russian collusion narrative going? You're being manipulated.