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Are paper votes in the US not anonymous? Like... with two envelopes and stuff? I don't see where it matters if persons or machines count which cross is marked o

Are paper votes in the US not anonymous? Like... with two envelopes and stuff? I don't see where it matters if persons or machines count which cross is marked on the ballot there tbh. Edit: thanks for all these clarifications!

JasonFruit 7y ago
They are anonymous, and I'm saying I like that. I'm only responding to the "ballot tied to a voter" aspect of the comment to which I replied.
- skrowl 7y ago
  In Ohio, they scan your ID, then keep track of the ballot number they give you. Thus, if they audit they can be sure the ballot was cast by a legitimate voter. If you don't tie ballots to voters, you go full Florida where they just keep "finding" boxes of prefilled ballots. You MUST tie a ballot to a voter if you want your elections to have any integrity at all. There is no other way to prevent double voting, voting out of precinct, etc.
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    >If you don't tie ballots to voters, you go full Florida where they just keep "finding" boxes of prefilled ballots. Broward county, 2016 election. They found a box of filled out ballots at the airport return in a rental car trunk... never a word about it again. Same county, defying a judges orders, the police stopped anyone from entering/auditing the count under direction of then admin Brenda Snipes. Guess who oversaw Bush / Gore recount? Brenda Snipes. What is the definition of insanity again?
    - tomatotomato37 7y ago
      The Bush/Gore recount was 2000, 3 years before Snipes was appointed admin; that being said her entire history is a tale of general incompetence culminating in getting kicked out last year for bungling the 2018 election so you aren't that far off the mark
michaelmrose 7y ago
A machine that produces no paper record that can be verified at time of voting by the voter can trivially be changed by the machine. A lock generally needs to be stronger than the motivation of a would be thief. In this case we are talking about controlling the disposition of trillions of dollars so there probably isn't a lock in the world that is good enough. Based on prior stories many of the machines aren't merely not good enough they are quite laughable and indeed often so old that no parts can be sourced anywhere because they haven't been made in decades.
beat 7y ago
Paper ballots in the US are anonymous. But the blockchain-solves-everything crowd sees blockchain-identifiable ballots as key to solving the problem of not having blockchain in the election, so they invented "But I need to see that my ballot exists!" as a justification.

JasonFruit 7y ago

They are anonymous, and I'm saying I like that. I'm only responding to the "ballot tied to a voter" aspect of the comment to which I replied.

skrowl 7y ago
In Ohio, they scan your ID, then keep track of the ballot number they give you. Thus, if they audit they can be sure the ballot was cast by a legitimate voter. If you don't tie ballots to voters, you go full Florida where they just keep "finding" boxes of prefilled ballots. You MUST tie a ballot to a voter if you want your elections to have any integrity at all. There is no other way to prevent double voting, voting out of precinct, etc.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  >If you don't tie ballots to voters, you go full Florida where they just keep "finding" boxes of prefilled ballots. Broward county, 2016 election. They found a box of filled out ballots at the airport return in a rental car trunk... never a word about it again. Same county, defying a judges orders, the police stopped anyone from entering/auditing the count under direction of then admin Brenda Snipes. Guess who oversaw Bush / Gore recount? Brenda Snipes. What is the definition of insanity again?
  - tomatotomato37 7y ago
    The Bush/Gore recount was 2000, 3 years before Snipes was appointed admin; that being said her entire history is a tale of general incompetence culminating in getting kicked out last year for bungling the 2018 election so you aren't that far off the mark

michaelmrose 7y ago

A machine that produces no paper record that can be verified at time of voting by the voter can trivially be changed by the machine. A lock generally needs to be stronger than the motivation of a would be thief. In this case we are talking about controlling the disposition of trillions of dollars so there probably isn't a lock in the world that is good enough. Based on prior stories many of the machines aren't merely not good enough they are quite laughable and indeed often so old that no parts can be sourced anywhere because they haven't been made in decades.

beat 7y ago

Paper ballots in the US are anonymous. But the blockchain-solves-everything crowd sees blockchain-identifiable ballots as key to solving the problem of not having blockchain in the election, so they invented "But I need to see that my ballot exists!" as a justification.