5 ms·

That's correct but I worry that all this will result in banning e-cigs (in my state at least), based on the idea that cigarettes (and many other things) wouldn'

by d1zzy 7y ago

That's correct but I worry that all this will result in banning e-cigs (in my state at least), based on the idea that cigarettes (and many other things) wouldn't have been legal/popular if they appeared today but we tolerate them because they are already a thing. The last thing I want is for my SO to go back to smoking real cigs because e-cigs become unavailable here :(

ceejayoz 7y ago
I'd like to see them made available via a prescription for smoking cessation.
- dennisnedry 7y ago
  I don't understand why making them available via a prescription would solve anything. I do not smoke or vape, but I have a friend who stopped smoking because vaping was accessible without going to a doctor. He just tried it because he wanted to see if it would work, and it did. He no longer vapes or smokes.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    The stated concern is e-cigs becoming unavailable to smokers looking to quit. Making it available via a prescription permits that use, while limiting access for recreational uptake by kids.
    - bobwaycott 7y ago
      No, it means every smoker has to go to a doctor just to try to use vaping to quit! Fuck that. That’s insane. No adult should have to go to a doctor for permission to use an e-cig. It’s not medicine. Let the state go after the businesses promoting and selling e-cigs to kids—and levy astronomical fines against them. Sponsor PSAs that scare kids away from doing it. Educate everyone on the potential risks. If these “kids” are 18, they’re adults, so let them do as they please. Cigarettes don’t require a prescription to get hooked on them. Adults should be free to recreationally use e-cigs just as much as cigarettes, weed, alcohol, and plenty of other substances. It’s their body. Increase taxes on them to try and discourage it and pay for PSAs against vaping. Whatever. But let’s dispense with the think-of-the-children crap, and let adults be adults.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- EpicEng 7y ago
  Sure. While you're at it, please ban red meat. I eat far too much of it and need to be protected.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    If someone starts selling nicotine-laced steaks, I'll be the first to advocate for an FDA crackdown on it.
    - EpicEng 7y ago
      Nicotine is in the same drug class as caffiene. Want to ban coffee as well?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        Plenty of drugs are in the same class with substantially differing impacts - take heroin vs. morphine vs. fentanyl vs. oxycodone as an example, or ask someone taking antipsychotic psych meds if they're all the same. Or try taking some strychnine because it's an alkaloid like nicotine and caffeine and see how well that works out. Since you picked coffee as an example, most of the studies I've seen indicate probably health benefits from it. Nicotine it's not.
        EpicEng 7y ago
        I guess I shouldn't have used the word "class" as you're not the only person to come back with that. I mean that it's generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA. I think you know that comparing heroin to nicotine is just silly and, as far as I'm aware, there's no data that shows that nicotine is any more or substantially more harmful than caffeine. So back in reality where we're talking about banning e-cigs; why should they be subject to a prescription?
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        "So back in reality" GRAS does not mean what you think it means. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664775/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664775/ > Despite scientific uncertainty regarding the safety of inhaling aerosol and flavorant substances from electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) relative to inhaling smoke from traditional cigarettes, some consumers and vape shop employees suggest that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) designation of constituents provides clear evidence of overall e-cigarette safety. > Although the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association (FEMA) has clarified that the GRAS program only assesses product safety for ingestion in food, not inhalation, public confusion appears to continue. Nicotine isn't even on the GRAS list at all. Some of the additives (like glycerol) and flavorants are. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm?set=GRASNotices&sort=GRN_No&order=DESC&startrow=1&type=basic&search=nicotine https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm?set=GR...
sawjet 7y ago
There are tons of resources for building your own DIY e-cigarette. it might not be as slim and sleek as a Juul, but it will perform better, be cheaper to maintain and produce much less waste.

by d1zzy 7y ago

ceejayoz 7y ago

I'd like to see them made available via a prescription for smoking cessation.

dennisnedry 7y ago
I don't understand why making them available via a prescription would solve anything. I do not smoke or vape, but I have a friend who stopped smoking because vaping was accessible without going to a doctor. He just tried it because he wanted to see if it would work, and it did. He no longer vapes or smokes.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  The stated concern is e-cigs becoming unavailable to smokers looking to quit. Making it available via a prescription permits that use, while limiting access for recreational uptake by kids.
  - bobwaycott 7y ago
    No, it means every smoker has to go to a doctor just to try to use vaping to quit! Fuck that. That’s insane. No adult should have to go to a doctor for permission to use an e-cig. It’s not medicine. Let the state go after the businesses promoting and selling e-cigs to kids—and levy astronomical fines against them. Sponsor PSAs that scare kids away from doing it. Educate everyone on the potential risks. If these “kids” are 18, they’re adults, so let them do as they please. Cigarettes don’t require a prescription to get hooked on them. Adults should be free to recreationally use e-cigs just as much as cigarettes, weed, alcohol, and plenty of other substances. It’s their body. Increase taxes on them to try and discourage it and pay for PSAs against vaping. Whatever. But let’s dispense with the think-of-the-children crap, and let adults be adults.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
EpicEng 7y ago
Sure. While you're at it, please ban red meat. I eat far too much of it and need to be protected.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  If someone starts selling nicotine-laced steaks, I'll be the first to advocate for an FDA crackdown on it.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    Nicotine is in the same drug class as caffiene. Want to ban coffee as well?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Plenty of drugs are in the same class with substantially differing impacts - take heroin vs. morphine vs. fentanyl vs. oxycodone as an example, or ask someone taking antipsychotic psych meds if they're all the same. Or try taking some strychnine because it's an alkaloid like nicotine and caffeine and see how well that works out. Since you picked coffee as an example, most of the studies I've seen indicate probably health benefits from it. Nicotine it's not.
      - EpicEng 7y ago
        I guess I shouldn't have used the word "class" as you're not the only person to come back with that. I mean that it's generally recognized as safe (GRAS) by the FDA. I think you know that comparing heroin to nicotine is just silly and, as far as I'm aware, there's no data that shows that nicotine is any more or substantially more harmful than caffeine. So back in reality where we're talking about banning e-cigs; why should they be subject to a prescription?
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        "So back in reality" GRAS does not mean what you think it means. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664775/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5664775/ > Despite scientific uncertainty regarding the safety of inhaling aerosol and flavorant substances from electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) relative to inhaling smoke from traditional cigarettes, some consumers and vape shop employees suggest that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) designation of constituents provides clear evidence of overall e-cigarette safety. > Although the Flavor and Extract Manufacturers Association (FEMA) has clarified that the GRAS program only assesses product safety for ingestion in food, not inhalation, public confusion appears to continue. Nicotine isn't even on the GRAS list at all. Some of the additives (like glycerol) and flavorants are. https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm?set=GRASNotices&sort=GRN_No&order=DESC&startrow=1&type=basic&search=nicotine https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/fdcc/index.cfm?set=GR...

sawjet 7y ago

There are tons of resources for building your own DIY e-cigarette. it might not be as slim and sleek as a Juul, but it will perform better, be cheaper to maintain and produce much less waste.