3 ms·

I have a real problem with the way a large number of people on HN dismiss college because there are better & less expensive ways to learn the things you need to

I have a real problem with the way a large number of people on HN dismiss college because there are better & less expensive ways to learn the things you need to know and get the credentials you need. Of course there are. The diagnosis is correct, but the prescription is wrong. There is no better & less expensive way for someone between the ages of 18 and 21 to surround themselves with people the same age, who are as smart as they are, and learn how to be a positive social creature. Maybe it's because I have a liberal arts degree instead of an engineering degree, but college taught me how to be a person, in the broadest sense. I'm perfectly happy to admit I went to college because that was "the thing to do," and I'm glad I can relate to so many people by virtue of having done it. My best friends are still the 5 people living on my freshman floor who played counterstrike on 2ms ping university servers at 4am with our doors open, shouting at each other down the hall. College is FUN. F-U-N. It is a highly structured 4-year period where you have exactly 2 responsibilities: graduate and don't die. Sure, there might be less expensive ways to socialize, but none that so forcefully eject you from the shell you built around yourself in high school - something I suspect many who hope to eventually be in startups have built. You can say "oh, go to tech meetups", but you can still stand in the corner there, an intimidated 18-year old, just as easily as anywhere else. If you can take Guy Kawasaki's advice: live off your parents as long as humanly possible. And if you have to pay for college yourself, consider it an investment in what many people consider the best 4 years of their lives.

cullenking 16y ago
This is good advice and all, but the problem is many people can't afford to go to college with just two responsibilities like you have listed. Going to college and working to help pay for it SUCKS. Some of the most miserable bits of my life were weeks on end of no sleep because I had a job and midterms/finals. So, if you have a well off family or you are willing to go $60k in debt and make it the most fun experience of your life, then that is one thing. But for a large portion of practical people who realize the implications of $60k in unsubsidized school loans, college is a rough four years.
- joshklein 16y ago
  You make a fair point; everyone has to do their own cost/benefit analysis. I just wanted to challenge the chronic devaluation of some of college's intangible benefits. Some life experiences are worth more than money, and I've heard more than a few older folks refer to the best things in their lives as: 1. Kids, 2. Marriage, 3. College.
  - cullenking 16y ago
    I agree. I am not discounting what I learned from college, which was how to suffer through and reach a goal. Can't discount that experience too much :)
sp4rki 16y ago
I'm probably an edge case, since I've dropped out of college twice because it just wasn't doing it for me. I plan on finishing because I want the piece of paper, but honestly there's no social aspect that you can't get elsewhere in some other capability. Then again I've never had a 'shell' to be ejected from, so I basically graduated from school with the plan of making something out of my life and have fun while doing it. In college I felt I was missing a whole lot of 'real life' and the fun was much to uninspiring for my taste. It felt like highschool, but with less retarded classmates to be honest. Going to college is a good thing, but it certainly is not a prerequisite to achieve an amount of knowledge that gets you ready for the 'real wold', nor does it provide a cultural & social benefit to everyone. In any case, people here dismiss college because the ratio of cost to benefit is seriously close to rock bottom, and will probably have very little impact on your career after the starting years.
zazi 16y ago
Hey, I took an engineering degree and it was able to teach me how to be a person as well (despite it not being a liberal arts degree). =) My experience is somewhat similar to your experience. I went to college because I did not know what else to do and it was "the thing to do". And it changed my life. Lifelong friends, outlook and maturity. Swapping experiences aside, I'm glad that someone is taking up the college side of the argument. I like to think of college as a purgatory for people who don't know what they want to do in life to hang out in. And hopefully, while they are there, they learn more about themselves to the point that they know what they want to do outside of college. To me college is one of the best places for people who are unsure of their life direction to learn about themselves (costs and other factors aside) because of the variety of new experiences and people that they encounter there. Once they learn what they want to do in life, it is trivial to analyze whether continuing with the college degree is worthwhile.

cullenking 16y ago

This is good advice and all, but the problem is many people can't afford to go to college with just two responsibilities like you have listed. Going to college and working to help pay for it SUCKS. Some of the most miserable bits of my life were weeks on end of no sleep because I had a job and midterms/finals. So, if you have a well off family or you are willing to go $60k in debt and make it the most fun experience of your life, then that is one thing. But for a large portion of practical people who realize the implications of $60k in unsubsidized school loans, college is a rough four years.

joshklein 16y ago
You make a fair point; everyone has to do their own cost/benefit analysis. I just wanted to challenge the chronic devaluation of some of college's intangible benefits. Some life experiences are worth more than money, and I've heard more than a few older folks refer to the best things in their lives as: 1. Kids, 2. Marriage, 3. College.
- cullenking 16y ago
  I agree. I am not discounting what I learned from college, which was how to suffer through and reach a goal. Can't discount that experience too much :)

sp4rki 16y ago

I'm probably an edge case, since I've dropped out of college twice because it just wasn't doing it for me. I plan on finishing because I want the piece of paper, but honestly there's no social aspect that you can't get elsewhere in some other capability. Then again I've never had a 'shell' to be ejected from, so I basically graduated from school with the plan of making something out of my life and have fun while doing it. In college I felt I was missing a whole lot of 'real life' and the fun was much to uninspiring for my taste. It felt like highschool, but with less retarded classmates to be honest. Going to college is a good thing, but it certainly is not a prerequisite to achieve an amount of knowledge that gets you ready for the 'real wold', nor does it provide a cultural & social benefit to everyone. In any case, people here dismiss college because the ratio of cost to benefit is seriously close to rock bottom, and will probably have very little impact on your career after the starting years.

zazi 16y ago

Hey, I took an engineering degree and it was able to teach me how to be a person as well (despite it not being a liberal arts degree). =) My experience is somewhat similar to your experience. I went to college because I did not know what else to do and it was "the thing to do". And it changed my life. Lifelong friends, outlook and maturity. Swapping experiences aside, I'm glad that someone is taking up the college side of the argument. I like to think of college as a purgatory for people who don't know what they want to do in life to hang out in. And hopefully, while they are there, they learn more about themselves to the point that they know what they want to do outside of college. To me college is one of the best places for people who are unsure of their life direction to learn about themselves (costs and other factors aside) because of the variety of new experiences and people that they encounter there. Once they learn what they want to do in life, it is trivial to analyze whether continuing with the college degree is worthwhile.