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Even back to the days of Archimedes and before, invention and innovation can be fueled by war and military research across many fields. Technology is almost dir

Even back to the days of Archimedes and before, invention and innovation can be fueled by war and military research across many fields. Technology is almost directly tied to defense/intel research even this here internet. That is one of the dualities of the human condition. At least good can come from it. Probably lots of reasons that research like this is attainable is due to massive budgets/funding and the ability to research an try many things in these types of r&d departments and the urgency of some research/development goals. Intelligence or military project conditions rarely apply to private market project budgets and timelines, only comparison is maybe academic research where some of the same goals/freedoms apply and both have reduced labor or essentially free labor.

HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
I imagine those innovations are due to tremendous spending, funded by taxes. I wonder what these engineers would be doing with their time otherwise. What those tax dollars could have accomplished. Sure we get a few pieces of technology, but it's at enormous cost. Especially when we hear about small companies or founders able to create useful technology. Not exactly perfect, but, a broken clock is right twice a day.
- papermachete 7y ago
  >what these engineers would be doing with their time otherwise It's illegal for one to R&D one's own weapons and counter-weapons systems at certain functionality. If one wishes to develop cutting edge military technology, one must sadly commit his life to it at the government's approval.
  - HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
    Erm, to clarify. Making labor saving inventions, communication, improvements to infrastructure, discovering new science. I did not mean weapons.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  I actually think that it's not a broken clock. Innovation during war is expedited because while the government and public agencies are massively inefficient during peace time. In war the brightest resource are drawn/forced to align with the government, increasing its capability. Whatever redtape that used to exist are now ditched for more efficiency, while if you keep being a massively inefficient government, you risk losing the war and everything. All of these factors proceed to make innovation pace much faster on matters that are somewhat related to military.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Would this apply to, say, the Iraq War?
    - sailfast 7y ago
      The challenges of the Iraq War that needed this kind of singular, focused effort were not really super publicized. I would say that counter-IED tech (IED Defeat), armored vehicle development, and possibly intelligence gathering platforms / fusion and special operator techniques, tactics, and procedures likely saw the biggest "focus" in terms of the military. I would not argue that this was efficient, well organized, or toward a single goal, but rather got a bunch of money dumped on it due to national priorities and something shook out.
      - 420codebro 7y ago
        Yeah a lot of the advancements from that era are still secret. Counter-IED and massive airborne visual surveillance at scale are my top two.
      - KineticLensman 7y ago
        The IED threat led to significant improvements in personal protection and medical care for casualties. There were also steps backward in preparedness due to the focus on counterinsurgency ops, e.g. loss of experience in areas such as air defence and armoured warfare which weren't relevant for most of the operation (also in Afghanistan).
- pm90 7y ago
  You're hitting on something interesting, let me take you to its logical conclusion. Essentially what you're arguing for is redeploying all these smart people to work on non-military work. However, in the absence of large, well-funded and long running programs, its hard for people to make such innovations. Most startups fail, most big corporations don't really care about R&D (with a few notable exceptions). So the only place where you can have the job stability and funding to pursue such innovation is either in Academia or military research. This is where I like the approach the US has taken. Instead of spending all the military dollars in building more armaments or having more boots on ground, the US military recognized the importance of technology to military superiority and invested tons of money in it. And it has payed off very handsomely for the US economy, even in peace time.
  - HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
    I have strong doubts about your claims of innovation in the military and academia. Edit, vs Industry.
lioeters 7y ago
> innovation can be fueled by war and military research This reminds me what I read about Leonardo da Vinci "pitching" for funding and sponsorship, with various inventions for military use like crossbows, catapults, steam-powered cannons, armored tanks..

HNcantBtrustd 7y ago

I imagine those innovations are due to tremendous spending, funded by taxes. I wonder what these engineers would be doing with their time otherwise. What those tax dollars could have accomplished. Sure we get a few pieces of technology, but it's at enormous cost. Especially when we hear about small companies or founders able to create useful technology. Not exactly perfect, but, a broken clock is right twice a day.

papermachete 7y ago
>what these engineers would be doing with their time otherwise It's illegal for one to R&D one's own weapons and counter-weapons systems at certain functionality. If one wishes to develop cutting edge military technology, one must sadly commit his life to it at the government's approval.
- HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
  Erm, to clarify. Making labor saving inventions, communication, improvements to infrastructure, discovering new science. I did not mean weapons.
Aperocky 7y ago
I actually think that it's not a broken clock. Innovation during war is expedited because while the government and public agencies are massively inefficient during peace time. In war the brightest resource are drawn/forced to align with the government, increasing its capability. Whatever redtape that used to exist are now ditched for more efficiency, while if you keep being a massively inefficient government, you risk losing the war and everything. All of these factors proceed to make innovation pace much faster on matters that are somewhat related to military.
- michaelt 7y ago
  Would this apply to, say, the Iraq War?
  - sailfast 7y ago
    The challenges of the Iraq War that needed this kind of singular, focused effort were not really super publicized. I would say that counter-IED tech (IED Defeat), armored vehicle development, and possibly intelligence gathering platforms / fusion and special operator techniques, tactics, and procedures likely saw the biggest "focus" in terms of the military. I would not argue that this was efficient, well organized, or toward a single goal, but rather got a bunch of money dumped on it due to national priorities and something shook out.
    - 420codebro 7y ago
      Yeah a lot of the advancements from that era are still secret. Counter-IED and massive airborne visual surveillance at scale are my top two.
    - KineticLensman 7y ago
      The IED threat led to significant improvements in personal protection and medical care for casualties. There were also steps backward in preparedness due to the focus on counterinsurgency ops, e.g. loss of experience in areas such as air defence and armoured warfare which weren't relevant for most of the operation (also in Afghanistan).
pm90 7y ago
You're hitting on something interesting, let me take you to its logical conclusion. Essentially what you're arguing for is redeploying all these smart people to work on non-military work. However, in the absence of large, well-funded and long running programs, its hard for people to make such innovations. Most startups fail, most big corporations don't really care about R&D (with a few notable exceptions). So the only place where you can have the job stability and funding to pursue such innovation is either in Academia or military research. This is where I like the approach the US has taken. Instead of spending all the military dollars in building more armaments or having more boots on ground, the US military recognized the importance of technology to military superiority and invested tons of money in it. And it has payed off very handsomely for the US economy, even in peace time.
- HNcantBtrustd 7y ago
  I have strong doubts about your claims of innovation in the military and academia. Edit, vs Industry.

lioeters 7y ago

> innovation can be fueled by war and military research This reminds me what I read about Leonardo da Vinci "pitching" for funding and sponsorship, with various inventions for military use like crossbows, catapults, steam-powered cannons, armored tanks..