4 ms·

>we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature. Eh, no. The part of the Amazon that is in Brazil

by onevu 7y ago

>we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature. Eh, no. The part of the Amazon that is in Brazil belongs to Brazil.

enibundo 7y ago
This is how it has been functioning til now. Of course. But one should have 1% critical/analytical brain to understand that this is not how it should be going. If you don't consider yourself subject subject to change you are doomed to disappear.
- lucasfcosta 7y ago
  I think that the problem here is not agreeing on whether this is awful. It's already pretty clear that it is. However, other countries cannot intervene. Brazilian borders are Brazilian, any other country that wants to help needs to be authorised by Brazilian authorities. The real problem here is that Brazil's leaders are awful and there's nothing that can be done in regards to that. It's only possible to protest and fight against them in a legal manner. Romanticizing revolution is ineffective. It's not only extremely hard but also infeasible to destroy all power structures already in place.
  - hjrnunes 7y ago
    Funny how no one proposed to remove California from US sovereignty when the fires were raging awhile back. Or the Gulf of Mexico coast with the Deep Horizon incident. --- Não vai encontrar razoabilidade aqui, amigo. Esta gente julga que manda no mundo inteiro.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      There's only one person in the thread even suggesting anything close to "removing sovereignty", yet you're already seeing a horde of enemies.
      - hjrnunes 7y ago
        I count the parent, and a couple more replying with something-must-be-done answers at the suggestion that the territory be forcefully or otherwise removed from Brazilian sovereignty. There are other comments in other sub-threads. Also, this pretext isn't a new idea, and there's heavyweight international support for it. “Contrary to what Brazilians think, the Amazon is not their property, it belongs to all of us,” Al Gore, then a senator, said in 1989. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weekinreview/18barrionuevo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weekinreview/18barrionuev... The Latin-American Bishops Conference denounced this back in 2007: The growing assault on the environment may serve as a pretext for proposals to internationalize the Amazon, which only serve the economic interests of transnational corporations. Pan-Amazon society is multiethnic, multicultural, and multireligious. The dispute over the occupation of the land is intensifying more and more. The traditional communities of the region want their lands to be recognized and legalized. https://www.celam.org/aparecida/Ingles.pdf https://www.celam.org/aparecida/Ingles.pdf Paragraph 86 The Brazilian Amazon territory borders British, French and Dutch interests in Guyana, French Guyana and Suriname, respectively. So, I don't see a horde of enemies, but I see an agenda. In my view, Bolsonaro's tenure is viewed as an opportunity to further this agenda, and that's if he's not in it himself.
oblio 7y ago
If you burn down your house and the fire spills over to my house, it stops being just your problem.
- onevu 7y ago
  Has the fire spilled over other country?
  - benjymo 7y ago
    Co2
  - consp 7y ago
    The pollution and collateral global impact does.
  - enibundo 7y ago
    Do you understand how nature works? You know ANYTHING about air?
  - oblio 7y ago
    https://www.france24.com/en/20190722-france-heatwave-temperature-record-revised-46-degrees https://www.france24.com/en/20190722-france-heatwave-tempera... https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/temperature-records-smashed-heatwave-bakes-europe https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/temperat... https://www.france24.com/en/20190810-france-luxembourg-tornado-southwest-lorraine-injuries-homes-storms https://www.france24.com/en/20190810-france-luxembourg-torna... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48119498 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48119498 Yes!
    - onevu 7y ago
      That doesn't look like fire to me.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  So... do we invade the USA for being the most pollutive country?
ctrl-j 7y ago
And yet the 20% of the earth's oxygen provided, and the additional CO2 the Amazon absorbs is kind of a big deal for the rest of us.
Ma8ee 7y ago
Yes, but if climate change is part of the cause of the fires we are all responsible by contributing greenhouse gases.
- efdee 7y ago
  From the article: "There is nothing abnormal about the climate this year or the rainfall in the Amazon region, which is just a little below average," Inpe researcher Alberto Setzer told Reuters. "The dry season creates the favourable conditions for the use and spread of fire, but starting a fire is the work of humans, either deliberately or by accident."
scarejunba 7y ago
And if you want Brazil’s Amazon to sink your carbon, why don’t you pay Brazil to sink your carbon? Or do you want them to do that for free while each of you burn 7 times as much as each of them? Well, good luck with that.

by onevu 7y ago

>we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature. Eh, no. The part of the Amazon that is in Brazil belongs to Brazil.

enibundo 7y ago

This is how it has been functioning til now. Of course. But one should have 1% critical/analytical brain to understand that this is not how it should be going. If you don't consider yourself subject subject to change you are doomed to disappear.

lucasfcosta 7y ago
I think that the problem here is not agreeing on whether this is awful. It's already pretty clear that it is. However, other countries cannot intervene. Brazilian borders are Brazilian, any other country that wants to help needs to be authorised by Brazilian authorities. The real problem here is that Brazil's leaders are awful and there's nothing that can be done in regards to that. It's only possible to protest and fight against them in a legal manner. Romanticizing revolution is ineffective. It's not only extremely hard but also infeasible to destroy all power structures already in place.
- hjrnunes 7y ago
  Funny how no one proposed to remove California from US sovereignty when the fires were raging awhile back. Or the Gulf of Mexico coast with the Deep Horizon incident. --- Não vai encontrar razoabilidade aqui, amigo. Esta gente julga que manda no mundo inteiro.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    There's only one person in the thread even suggesting anything close to "removing sovereignty", yet you're already seeing a horde of enemies.
    - hjrnunes 7y ago
      I count the parent, and a couple more replying with something-must-be-done answers at the suggestion that the territory be forcefully or otherwise removed from Brazilian sovereignty. There are other comments in other sub-threads. Also, this pretext isn't a new idea, and there's heavyweight international support for it. “Contrary to what Brazilians think, the Amazon is not their property, it belongs to all of us,” Al Gore, then a senator, said in 1989. https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weekinreview/18barrionuevo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weekinreview/18barrionuev... The Latin-American Bishops Conference denounced this back in 2007: The growing assault on the environment may serve as a pretext for proposals to internationalize the Amazon, which only serve the economic interests of transnational corporations. Pan-Amazon society is multiethnic, multicultural, and multireligious. The dispute over the occupation of the land is intensifying more and more. The traditional communities of the region want their lands to be recognized and legalized. https://www.celam.org/aparecida/Ingles.pdf https://www.celam.org/aparecida/Ingles.pdf Paragraph 86 The Brazilian Amazon territory borders British, French and Dutch interests in Guyana, French Guyana and Suriname, respectively. So, I don't see a horde of enemies, but I see an agenda. In my view, Bolsonaro's tenure is viewed as an opportunity to further this agenda, and that's if he's not in it himself.

oblio 7y ago

If you burn down your house and the fire spills over to my house, it stops being just your problem.

onevu 7y ago
Has the fire spilled over other country?
- benjymo 7y ago
  Co2
- consp 7y ago
  The pollution and collateral global impact does.
- enibundo 7y ago
  Do you understand how nature works? You know ANYTHING about air?
- oblio 7y ago
  https://www.france24.com/en/20190722-france-heatwave-temperature-record-revised-46-degrees https://www.france24.com/en/20190722-france-heatwave-tempera... https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/temperature-records-smashed-heatwave-bakes-europe https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/temperat... https://www.france24.com/en/20190810-france-luxembourg-tornado-southwest-lorraine-injuries-homes-storms https://www.france24.com/en/20190810-france-luxembourg-torna... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48119498 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48119498 Yes!
  - onevu 7y ago
    That doesn't look like fire to me.
lucb1e 7y ago
So... do we invade the USA for being the most pollutive country?

ctrl-j 7y ago

And yet the 20% of the earth's oxygen provided, and the additional CO2 the Amazon absorbs is kind of a big deal for the rest of us.

Ma8ee 7y ago

Yes, but if climate change is part of the cause of the fires we are all responsible by contributing greenhouse gases.

efdee 7y ago
From the article: "There is nothing abnormal about the climate this year or the rainfall in the Amazon region, which is just a little below average," Inpe researcher Alberto Setzer told Reuters. "The dry season creates the favourable conditions for the use and spread of fire, but starting a fire is the work of humans, either deliberately or by accident."

scarejunba 7y ago

And if you want Brazil’s Amazon to sink your carbon, why don’t you pay Brazil to sink your carbon? Or do you want them to do that for free while each of you burn 7 times as much as each of them? Well, good luck with that.