4 ms·

"Better to take something like RISC-V and come up with the first high performance design." The problem is that RISC-V mnemonics and programming model is so ret

"Better to take something like RISC-V and come up with the first high performance design." The problem is that RISC-V mnemonics and programming model is so retarded (as compared to MC68000 or UltraSPARC) that one needs a compiler to abstract and hide that mess away. The other problem is that in several years in which RISC-V has been hyped, nobody came up with a 19" rack server design, let alone sold one priced competitively with a 1U P. C. tin bucket server. RISC-V is all hype, but without serious hardware, its impact will be and remains questionable at best.

pjc50 7y ago
> mnemonics and programming model is so retarded Could you provide some examples instead of a slur?
- mlyle 7y ago
  First, it's not like the objection even matters: how nice the assembly interface is doesn't really matter for adoption at all. And it's not too bad; it's basically very close to a modernized MIPS. There are legitimate complaints, though. Probably the most controversial is that integer divide by zero can't be made to raise an exception. Similarly, omitting condition codes is something that will be distasteful to many. Also, there are so many combinations of legal instruction subsets that compatibility may suffer. Most everything is in a large set of optional extensions (and some important optional extensions aren't really finished yet).
- Annatar 7y ago
  move dst, src, src -- I could stop right here, but wait, there is more! lui, auipc -- because two instructions are better than a simple move.b or move.w. Really, what nonsense. sx, ux - I'm speechless at that nonsense. bltu, bgeu -- because blt and bge just weren't enough -- who designs a processor like this? lb, lh, lhu, lbu, sltiu instead of move.b, why? I challenge the sales pitch of making more nonsensical instructions amounting to a simpler processor design! (Boy does this make me mad.) It's not a slur, it really is utterly retarded, especially if one used to program an elegant microprocessor like the UltraSPARC or the Motorola 68000; even the MOS 6502 is more elegant. But to each his own, live and let live, right? Well why then must this botched processor constantly be sold and paraded as the greatest thing since sliced bread, a non plus ultra of processors, when it isn't?
  - DanBC 7y ago
    Plenty of HN readers have children with severe learning disability. Using the word "retard"[1] is likely to attract downvotes. [1] Unless you're talking about progress or watch mechanisms.
    - Annatar 7y ago
      That's exactly what I'm writing about, progress. RISC-V is not an advancement. What is opposite of advancement? In a system, it's either regression or retardation. And expecting people outside of the Puritan U. S. to abide by the same political correctness norms is extremely rude, inconsiderate and exclusionist -- using those same politically correct norms no less, which is to say, the U. S. should ban political correctness, and do so yesterday for the benefit of everyone.
      - DanBC 7y ago
        I don't care what words you use. I'm just telling you that when you describe people as retards you're going to get downvotes, and I'm telling you why that is. I'm not American and I don't live in the US.
        Annatar 7y ago
        I didn't describe people as retarded, but their work. Even very smart people often do dumb things.
        DanBC 7y ago
        When you say things like this... > mnemonics and programming model is so retarded ...you are going to get downvoted. This is because people who speak English as a first language understand you to mean "this is stupid, like a retard". They don't understand you to mean "this is delayed, like a watch mechanism would be adjusted". You can keep arguing that you didn't mean what you said, but at least two people are telling you how your words are being interpreted.
nickik 7y ago
People have made really fast implementations of RISC-V and universally praised it as being very nice. And that a ISA that is that knew doesn't have of the shelf server, has nothing to do with the problems of the ISA but rather making mass-market produces for new ISA is incredibly difficult. RISC-V has barley out of the lab for a couple years and the growth of software and hardware has been impressive so far. Saying it is 'all hype' is serious nonsense and speaks more about your expectations then RISC-V-
- Annatar 7y ago
  I should hope it speaks of my expectations: can't run server workloads on it, worse to program for than OpenSPARC or M68000. I actually want a nice processor and server hardware to use it in to do work. RISC-V ISA and the hardware around it provide neither and yet here we are, it's constantly being paraded as the non-plus-ultra of central processing units.

pjc50 7y ago

> mnemonics and programming model is so retarded Could you provide some examples instead of a slur?

mlyle 7y ago
First, it's not like the objection even matters: how nice the assembly interface is doesn't really matter for adoption at all. And it's not too bad; it's basically very close to a modernized MIPS. There are legitimate complaints, though. Probably the most controversial is that integer divide by zero can't be made to raise an exception. Similarly, omitting condition codes is something that will be distasteful to many. Also, there are so many combinations of legal instruction subsets that compatibility may suffer. Most everything is in a large set of optional extensions (and some important optional extensions aren't really finished yet).
Annatar 7y ago
move dst, src, src -- I could stop right here, but wait, there is more! lui, auipc -- because two instructions are better than a simple move.b or move.w. Really, what nonsense. sx, ux - I'm speechless at that nonsense. bltu, bgeu -- because blt and bge just weren't enough -- who designs a processor like this? lb, lh, lhu, lbu, sltiu instead of move.b, why? I challenge the sales pitch of making more nonsensical instructions amounting to a simpler processor design! (Boy does this make me mad.) It's not a slur, it really is utterly retarded, especially if one used to program an elegant microprocessor like the UltraSPARC or the Motorola 68000; even the MOS 6502 is more elegant. But to each his own, live and let live, right? Well why then must this botched processor constantly be sold and paraded as the greatest thing since sliced bread, a non plus ultra of processors, when it isn't?
- DanBC 7y ago
  Plenty of HN readers have children with severe learning disability. Using the word "retard"[1] is likely to attract downvotes. [1] Unless you're talking about progress or watch mechanisms.
  - Annatar 7y ago
    That's exactly what I'm writing about, progress. RISC-V is not an advancement. What is opposite of advancement? In a system, it's either regression or retardation. And expecting people outside of the Puritan U. S. to abide by the same political correctness norms is extremely rude, inconsiderate and exclusionist -- using those same politically correct norms no less, which is to say, the U. S. should ban political correctness, and do so yesterday for the benefit of everyone.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      I don't care what words you use. I'm just telling you that when you describe people as retards you're going to get downvotes, and I'm telling you why that is. I'm not American and I don't live in the US.
      - Annatar 7y ago
        I didn't describe people as retarded, but their work. Even very smart people often do dumb things.
        DanBC 7y ago
        When you say things like this... > mnemonics and programming model is so retarded ...you are going to get downvoted. This is because people who speak English as a first language understand you to mean "this is stupid, like a retard". They don't understand you to mean "this is delayed, like a watch mechanism would be adjusted". You can keep arguing that you didn't mean what you said, but at least two people are telling you how your words are being interpreted.

nickik 7y ago

People have made really fast implementations of RISC-V and universally praised it as being very nice. And that a ISA that is that knew doesn't have of the shelf server, has nothing to do with the problems of the ISA but rather making mass-market produces for new ISA is incredibly difficult. RISC-V has barley out of the lab for a couple years and the growth of software and hardware has been impressive so far. Saying it is 'all hype' is serious nonsense and speaks more about your expectations then RISC-V-

Annatar 7y ago
I should hope it speaks of my expectations: can't run server workloads on it, worse to program for than OpenSPARC or M68000. I actually want a nice processor and server hardware to use it in to do work. RISC-V ISA and the hardware around it provide neither and yet here we are, it's constantly being paraded as the non-plus-ultra of central processing units.