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You'd probably be ok, if you only ate the veggies you grew yourself. But what about meat, dairy and other animal products? What about bread, rice and other cere

by scribu 7y ago

You'd probably be ok, if you only ate the veggies you grew yourself. But what about meat, dairy and other animal products? What about bread, rice and other cereals?

bardworx 7y ago
I have a friend who is incredibly conscious about such things and they convinced a farmer to raise chickens on non-gmo, organic feed; chickens are free range, and treated humanely. They called it the “holy grail” chicken. Yes, they did inspect the chicken, feed, etc. Total cost to purchase is $20/lb. majority of the cost coming from feed. Regardless if you can pick apart my story or how honest the entire process is, I’m not sure this is sustainable. Who can afford such prices? If this is the case (and true at face value), what are our choices? I don’t want to be a Debby Downer, just passing along info.
- esotericn 7y ago
  > Who can afford such prices? Not sure about $20/lb - I guess this means most don't eat chicken often - but... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo... It may well be that we just have to spend more on food and less on rent (for example). In aggregate it wouldn't be much of an issue if over a period of 10-20 years food prices increased and something else (due to limited individual budgets) decreased.
- dv_dt 7y ago
  The interesting part is that current lowest-cost food production is a semi-random walk of various optimization paths to arrive at the status quo. That someone tried a different path, optimizing different parameters doesn't give any guarantees that further attempts could or could not go as low in price, or maybe at get to an overall higher value to a wider set of end consumers even if the price were higher. We could be creating less waste, or healthier food products, the question is how do we systematically explore new spaces like that, even when there isn't immediate payoff. We shouldn't just rely on lucky whims of individuals - if nothing else our overall system conspires to a smaller ration of fewer individuals financially capable of indulging such exploration.
- cheeseprocedure 7y ago
  It’s possible to raise chickens as part of a broader regenerative system where much of the feed is an output from elsewhere in that system. This has been done profitably by folks like Joel Salatin, but it has its own constraints (for example, availability of pasture land).
perfmode 7y ago
you don’t necessarily need meat, dairy, other animal products, bread, rice, and other cereals.
- airstrike 7y ago
  You kinda really need at least a substantial subset of those

by scribu 7y ago

You'd probably be ok, if you only ate the veggies you grew yourself. But what about meat, dairy and other animal products? What about bread, rice and other cereals?

bardworx 7y ago

I have a friend who is incredibly conscious about such things and they convinced a farmer to raise chickens on non-gmo, organic feed; chickens are free range, and treated humanely. They called it the “holy grail” chicken. Yes, they did inspect the chicken, feed, etc. Total cost to purchase is $20/lb. majority of the cost coming from feed. Regardless if you can pick apart my story or how honest the entire process is, I’m not sure this is sustainable. Who can afford such prices? If this is the case (and true at face value), what are our choices? I don’t want to be a Debby Downer, just passing along info.

esotericn 7y ago
> Who can afford such prices? Not sure about $20/lb - I guess this means most don't eat chicken often - but... https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/your-grandparents-spent-more-of-their-money-on-food-than-you-do https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/03/02/389578089/yo... It may well be that we just have to spend more on food and less on rent (for example). In aggregate it wouldn't be much of an issue if over a period of 10-20 years food prices increased and something else (due to limited individual budgets) decreased.
dv_dt 7y ago
The interesting part is that current lowest-cost food production is a semi-random walk of various optimization paths to arrive at the status quo. That someone tried a different path, optimizing different parameters doesn't give any guarantees that further attempts could or could not go as low in price, or maybe at get to an overall higher value to a wider set of end consumers even if the price were higher. We could be creating less waste, or healthier food products, the question is how do we systematically explore new spaces like that, even when there isn't immediate payoff. We shouldn't just rely on lucky whims of individuals - if nothing else our overall system conspires to a smaller ration of fewer individuals financially capable of indulging such exploration.
cheeseprocedure 7y ago
It’s possible to raise chickens as part of a broader regenerative system where much of the feed is an output from elsewhere in that system. This has been done profitably by folks like Joel Salatin, but it has its own constraints (for example, availability of pasture land).

perfmode 7y ago

you don’t necessarily need meat, dairy, other animal products, bread, rice, and other cereals.

airstrike 7y ago
You kinda really need at least a substantial subset of those