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Exactly what am I projecting? Tell me. You've taken the presented scenario and added things to try and bolster a point. Even now, you're trying to talk out of

by bena 7y ago

Exactly what am I projecting? Tell me. You've taken the presented scenario and added things to try and bolster a point. Even now, you're trying to talk out of the side of your mouth to make it seem as if every "request" by you is actually an opportunity in disguise for the person you are assigning tasks to. Look man, sometimes, tasks just need to be done. And that's fine. You aren't fooling anyone by saying you're "giving them an opportunity to explore disposal management techniques in an office environment".

mlyle 7y ago
> Even now, you're trying to talk out of the side of your mouth to make it seem as if every "request" by you is actually an opportunity in disguise for the person you are assigning tasks to. I'm saying the verbiage matters and conveys different things. There are times I just flat-out tell people to do things (rare). There are times I ask if someone would please do something (most). And there are times when I ask if someone would like to do something (rare). In all cases I'm trying to keep someone's total workload sane. Not only is this the way I use it, it appears to be the way other people use it, too... While obviously nothing is universal and I can't speak for everyone, the way I use it seems to be common. From other responses on this subthread: > If my manager said "would you like to x" I would assume he is trying to figure out who on the team to give x to, and wants to take our preferences into account. or > Is “would you like to?” really a firm request? I would definitely interpret that as a genuine question meant to gauge my desire. or > I'm a manager. If I made that request, I have left the door open for a refusal BUT I would expect an explanation ("No, I can't do X because of Y..."). or > In the US specifically, though, I’d take this as a genuine question. Any manager who didn’t get that is going to either learn to change their ways or will be perpetually frustrated. When I get something that I think would be fun/interesting/an opportunity for growth, I'm genuinely excited to be able to provide more interesting work and to be able to see subordinates grow. Usually these things are stuff that I hope to include as positive anecdotes in performance reviews. People can say "no", but I'd really appreciate an answer that conveys why they wouldn't like to so I can better understand. On the other hand: if someone begs off these tasks a lot, I'm not likely to keep offering them. And it will be difficult to promote someone who doesn't take these kinds of growth opportunities. > Look man, sometimes, tasks just need to be done. And that's fine. You aren't fooling anyone by saying you're "giving them an opportunity to explore disposal management techniques in an office environment". Again, I'd just nicely ask someone to do something in this case, not ask whether they'd like to. In any case, you're leaping to hostility fairly quickly. The accusation of "talking out of the side of [my] mouth" is unnecessary-- I'm telling you genuinely as I see it and as I try to do. Indeed, reading the people who say that they understand it as a firm command makes me want to use this verbiage less-- though I don't quite know how to start the kinds of conversations I want to have about these optional tasks without it.
mlyle 7y ago
Just one other point. Next week I'm going to start coaching a FIRST Lego League team, with a whole bunch of fourth, fifth, and sixth graders. The team structure I have in mind needs a couple of project managers-- one for their robot project and one for their community project. I have on my agenda to ask a couple kids if they'd like to be in these roles. I hope they say yes because I think they'd be good at it and it's an opportunity for growth. There are other decent candidates if they say no. This is the exact verbiage on my notes for the meeting "Would you like ...". It also includes cautioning them that they probably will get to do less of certain kinds of fun things (the robot game) but will be in a position of importance and responsibility and growth. Acceptable answers are "yes!" or "I'd really rather _____, because ______." "No" is OK since they're kids, but not really a great answer to an option offered.
- bena 7y ago
  So, in other words, an entirely different situation.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    Feels exactly the same to me. I'm coaching this robotics team like I'd manage a product group. I'll try to approach this more sensitively to make it clear that the task is optional but that respectful conversation about it is expected. [And I'm still thinking about how to do this... a serious preface about exactly what I expect in the interchange is its own pressure/distortion] I don't think anyone has felt compelled so far in my usage of it, but I'd like to eliminate the possibility.

by bena 7y ago

mlyle 7y ago

> Even now, you're trying to talk out of the side of your mouth to make it seem as if every "request" by you is actually an opportunity in disguise for the person you are assigning tasks to. I'm saying the verbiage matters and conveys different things. There are times I just flat-out tell people to do things (rare). There are times I ask if someone would please do something (most). And there are times when I ask if someone would like to do something (rare). In all cases I'm trying to keep someone's total workload sane. Not only is this the way I use it, it appears to be the way other people use it, too... While obviously nothing is universal and I can't speak for everyone, the way I use it seems to be common. From other responses on this subthread: > If my manager said "would you like to x" I would assume he is trying to figure out who on the team to give x to, and wants to take our preferences into account. or > Is “would you like to?” really a firm request? I would definitely interpret that as a genuine question meant to gauge my desire. or > I'm a manager. If I made that request, I have left the door open for a refusal BUT I would expect an explanation ("No, I can't do X because of Y..."). or > In the US specifically, though, I’d take this as a genuine question. Any manager who didn’t get that is going to either learn to change their ways or will be perpetually frustrated. When I get something that I think would be fun/interesting/an opportunity for growth, I'm genuinely excited to be able to provide more interesting work and to be able to see subordinates grow. Usually these things are stuff that I hope to include as positive anecdotes in performance reviews. People can say "no", but I'd really appreciate an answer that conveys why they wouldn't like to so I can better understand. On the other hand: if someone begs off these tasks a lot, I'm not likely to keep offering them. And it will be difficult to promote someone who doesn't take these kinds of growth opportunities. > Look man, sometimes, tasks just need to be done. And that's fine. You aren't fooling anyone by saying you're "giving them an opportunity to explore disposal management techniques in an office environment". Again, I'd just nicely ask someone to do something in this case, not ask whether they'd like to. In any case, you're leaping to hostility fairly quickly. The accusation of "talking out of the side of [my] mouth" is unnecessary-- I'm telling you genuinely as I see it and as I try to do. Indeed, reading the people who say that they understand it as a firm command makes me want to use this verbiage less-- though I don't quite know how to start the kinds of conversations I want to have about these optional tasks without it.

mlyle 7y ago

Just one other point. Next week I'm going to start coaching a FIRST Lego League team, with a whole bunch of fourth, fifth, and sixth graders. The team structure I have in mind needs a couple of project managers-- one for their robot project and one for their community project. I have on my agenda to ask a couple kids if they'd like to be in these roles. I hope they say yes because I think they'd be good at it and it's an opportunity for growth. There are other decent candidates if they say no. This is the exact verbiage on my notes for the meeting "Would you like ...". It also includes cautioning them that they probably will get to do less of certain kinds of fun things (the robot game) but will be in a position of importance and responsibility and growth. Acceptable answers are "yes!" or "I'd really rather _____, because ______." "No" is OK since they're kids, but not really a great answer to an option offered.

bena 7y ago
So, in other words, an entirely different situation.
- mlyle 7y ago
  Feels exactly the same to me. I'm coaching this robotics team like I'd manage a product group. I'll try to approach this more sensitively to make it clear that the task is optional but that respectful conversation about it is expected. [And I'm still thinking about how to do this... a serious preface about exactly what I expect in the interchange is its own pressure/distortion] I don't think anyone has felt compelled so far in my usage of it, but I'd like to eliminate the possibility.