6 ms·

Edge's "IE Mode" is depressing. We fit exactly into the problem space it aims to solve (enterprise with a mix of both Java Applets and modern "internal" web sit

Edge's "IE Mode" is depressing. We fit exactly into the problem space it aims to solve (enterprise with a mix of both Java Applets and modern "internal" web sites that could target current web-standards if not for the Java Applets backlog). The problem with "IE Mode" as implemented is that it only works for devices connected to AD/fully managed. Our "internal" sites (both Java Applet and modern) are externally accessible and via BYOD like a lot of enterprises today. Employees work from home. Employees work remotely. I can see why "website list" would be their preferred solution to routing, but unfortunately it won't work for a lot of enterprises in 2019. We aren't using internal sites like 2005 anymore, they're "internal" only in name and function, they're very much externally accessible (even via VPN in some cases, but you aren't managing the actual device).

derefr 7y ago
In the enterprises I've worked in, BYOD devices are still fully managed. Usually, you must enrol your device in enterprise MDM in order to connect to the corporate VPN. Presumably, this type of enterprise is the type Microsoft is targeting with IE compatibility mode.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  That seems pretty inflexible, and a potential invasion of employee's privacy. I'm talking about employees being able to input their leave/overtime into an externally facing "internal" web-portal, or looking up tickets/jobs. Requiring that they allow full enterprise control of every device that would access an internet facing website seems dragonian.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    There are a few solutions: 1. Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors. The company can easily pay some consultants who would gladly take their money. 2. Provide a company device. 3. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      > Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors It is already. But I don't see the relevance. > Provide a company device. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices. In order to use a web browser to connect to an internet facing website? I genuinely don't understand what you think got said for this reply to make sense. It certainly doesn't seem relevant to the discussion of how IE Mode routes. It is a public facing "internal" enterprise website. It has mixed content (Java Applets and web content). It has to target IE11 for web content due to the Java Applets. IE Mode doesn't solve this well because any device an employee can use can also access the site (it is on the internet after all). A Citrix terminal(???) is a worse solution than just having everyone use IE11 as today.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        It is already. But I don't see the relevance. The relevance is that instead of the corporation biting the bullet and moving away from a home grown app and expecting Microsoft to support them forever, the company should be investing in newer (ie less than a decade and a half old system). In order to use a web browser to connect to an internet facing website? I genuinely don't understand what you think got said for this reply to make sense. It certainly doesn't seem relevant to the discussion of how IE Mode routes. The internet facing “website” that is still using proprietary old IE technology is no more of a modern definition of a website than one requiring RealPlayer or a Gopher client. And depending on any Java applet doesn’t help the majority of users who are using mobile devices. It is a public facing "internal" enterprise website. It has mixed content (Java Applets and web content). It has to target IE11 for web content due to the Java Applets. The problem is that depending on Java applets in 2019 doesn’t serve the employees well and neither did whoever decided it was a good idea not to start a migration strategy a decade ago....
        Someone1234 7y ago
        I feel like you aren't reading my replies so I'll keep this short. - We know Java Applets don't work on non-IE11 browsers and mobile devices, that's why we've spent the last three years migrating to modern web standards, that's why we have mixed legacy/modern content, which incidentally exactly the scenario IE Mode was invented to solve. Thus the entire point of this feature and my post. - If you ONLY have Java Applets IE Mode does nothing for you. It is a migration helper. - Our time management system is from a popular vendor and uses modern web technologies, it isn't relevant here. - No "proprietary IE technology" is used. The website has Java Applets built using Oracle's technology on it. IE11 supports Java Applets. Edge, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and others do not. - Companies have invested tens of years into now defunct technologies. Suggesting they migrate tens of years of investment in an eighth of the time isn't at all realistic or constructive. It is an ongoing process. We'll be stuck mid-migration for another five-ish years (thousands of man hours still to go). - Thank you for telling me what the company should have done 12 years ago, and 8 years before I joined. Very constructive.
  - close04 7y ago
    BYOD gives you the freedom to pick whatever device you want and do the actual work with it, not just enter working time and book vacation. But you're connecting that device to the network and using it to access the most sensitive parts of that network, the most delicate data. Most users have little to no "tech hygiene" so allowing random devices maintained by these users to connect will open your company to a world of hurt. For basic standard activities most companies offer locked down environments like Citrix or externally facing portals that can be safely accessed form any home computer. The alternative is to use a company issued device for work.
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      > But you're connecting that device to the network and using it to access the most sensitive parts of that network and the most delicate data. That's not the usage I set out above at all. Not even ballpark. I am talking about an externally accessible "internal" enterprise website, and that IE Mode cannot be used well with it. I'm not sure how you got from website to "access sensitive parts of the enterprise network." Employees are BYOD to access the company's "internal" website from an external endpoint. That's the topic. That's where IE Mode applies. It reads like you and the sibling comment forgot what is even being discussed. This is IE Mode for websites. Specifically for "internal" enterprise websites. I am discussing the highly common practice of allowing access to "internal" websites externally (inc. via privately owned employee's devices over the internet).
      - mrkstu 7y ago
        At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be refactored into a true standards compatible website. Trying to fix the problem on the browser side is the wrong answer, which is what Microsoft is trying to nudge enterprises to by progressively making it harder to use legacy dependent apps like that.
        Someone1234 7y ago
        > At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be refactored into a true standards compatible website. That logic could be used to magic anyway any need for IE Mode for anyone. Why even take part in this discussion if you dismiss the need for the very thing we're discussing? Seems fruitless. I honestly have no interest in discussing the merits of IE Mode conceptually. I am talking about the implementation from the point of it existing on-wards. You're welcome to find someone else to argue this with however.
senectus1 7y ago
this is our network as well (6k + desktops/laptops)

derefr 7y ago

In the enterprises I've worked in, BYOD devices are still fully managed. Usually, you must enrol your device in enterprise MDM in order to connect to the corporate VPN. Presumably, this type of enterprise is the type Microsoft is targeting with IE compatibility mode.

Someone1234 7y ago
That seems pretty inflexible, and a potential invasion of employee's privacy. I'm talking about employees being able to input their leave/overtime into an externally facing "internal" web-portal, or looking up tickets/jobs. Requiring that they allow full enterprise control of every device that would access an internet facing website seems dragonian.
- scarface74 7y ago
  There are a few solutions: 1. Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors. The company can easily pay some consultants who would gladly take their money. 2. Provide a company device. 3. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    > Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors It is already. But I don't see the relevance. > Provide a company device. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices. In order to use a web browser to connect to an internet facing website? I genuinely don't understand what you think got said for this reply to make sense. It certainly doesn't seem relevant to the discussion of how IE Mode routes. It is a public facing "internal" enterprise website. It has mixed content (Java Applets and web content). It has to target IE11 for web content due to the Java Applets. IE Mode doesn't solve this well because any device an employee can use can also access the site (it is on the internet after all). A Citrix terminal(???) is a worse solution than just having everyone use IE11 as today.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      It is already. But I don't see the relevance. The relevance is that instead of the corporation biting the bullet and moving away from a home grown app and expecting Microsoft to support them forever, the company should be investing in newer (ie less than a decade and a half old system). In order to use a web browser to connect to an internet facing website? I genuinely don't understand what you think got said for this reply to make sense. It certainly doesn't seem relevant to the discussion of how IE Mode routes. The internet facing “website” that is still using proprietary old IE technology is no more of a modern definition of a website than one requiring RealPlayer or a Gopher client. And depending on any Java applet doesn’t help the majority of users who are using mobile devices. It is a public facing "internal" enterprise website. It has mixed content (Java Applets and web content). It has to target IE11 for web content due to the Java Applets. The problem is that depending on Java applets in 2019 doesn’t serve the employees well and neither did whoever decided it was a good idea not to start a migration strategy a decade ago....
      - Someone1234 7y ago
        I feel like you aren't reading my replies so I'll keep this short. - We know Java Applets don't work on non-IE11 browsers and mobile devices, that's why we've spent the last three years migrating to modern web standards, that's why we have mixed legacy/modern content, which incidentally exactly the scenario IE Mode was invented to solve. Thus the entire point of this feature and my post. - If you ONLY have Java Applets IE Mode does nothing for you. It is a migration helper. - Our time management system is from a popular vendor and uses modern web technologies, it isn't relevant here. - No "proprietary IE technology" is used. The website has Java Applets built using Oracle's technology on it. IE11 supports Java Applets. Edge, Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and others do not. - Companies have invested tens of years into now defunct technologies. Suggesting they migrate tens of years of investment in an eighth of the time isn't at all realistic or constructive. It is an ongoing process. We'll be stuck mid-migration for another five-ish years (thousands of man hours still to go). - Thank you for telling me what the company should have done 12 years ago, and 8 years before I joined. Very constructive.
- close04 7y ago
  BYOD gives you the freedom to pick whatever device you want and do the actual work with it, not just enter working time and book vacation. But you're connecting that device to the network and using it to access the most sensitive parts of that network, the most delicate data. Most users have little to no "tech hygiene" so allowing random devices maintained by these users to connect will open your company to a world of hurt. For basic standard activities most companies offer locked down environments like Citrix or externally facing portals that can be safely accessed form any home computer. The alternative is to use a company issued device for work.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    > But you're connecting that device to the network and using it to access the most sensitive parts of that network and the most delicate data. That's not the usage I set out above at all. Not even ballpark. I am talking about an externally accessible "internal" enterprise website, and that IE Mode cannot be used well with it. I'm not sure how you got from website to "access sensitive parts of the enterprise network." Employees are BYOD to access the company's "internal" website from an external endpoint. That's the topic. That's where IE Mode applies. It reads like you and the sibling comment forgot what is even being discussed. This is IE Mode for websites. Specifically for "internal" enterprise websites. I am discussing the highly common practice of allowing access to "internal" websites externally (inc. via privately owned employee's devices over the internet).
    - mrkstu 7y ago
      At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be refactored into a true standards compatible website. Trying to fix the problem on the browser side is the wrong answer, which is what Microsoft is trying to nudge enterprises to by progressively making it harder to use legacy dependent apps like that.
      - Someone1234 7y ago
        > At this point any such site that you want universally accessible should be refactored into a true standards compatible website. That logic could be used to magic anyway any need for IE Mode for anyone. Why even take part in this discussion if you dismiss the need for the very thing we're discussing? Seems fruitless. I honestly have no interest in discussing the merits of IE Mode conceptually. I am talking about the implementation from the point of it existing on-wards. You're welcome to find someone else to argue this with however.

senectus1 7y ago

this is our network as well (6k + desktops/laptops)