12 ms·

Microsoft Edge preview builds are ready to try

94 points by thomaspark 7y ago

no_wizard 7y ago
This is different from the Dev channel that they had opened up awhile back, in case anyone else gets confused as I did for a few moments. I really like it. In my opinion, its the best version of Chrom(ium) you can get on Windows and Mac. Very snappy. And they already have some neat developer tooling around it. There is a vscode extension to do live reloads with with it, and see/manipulate the DOM and do other debugging/measuring of your application. Good work here!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
wlesieutre 7y ago
The macOS download link at the bottom directs me to https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-link} https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-link} Is there somewhere else to find this? EDIT - Use the "More platforms and channels" link under the big Windows download button, then the dropdown menus on that page to get the Mac version.
- dag11 7y ago
  https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/?platform=macos https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/?platfor... Seem to be working here.
rckclmbr 7y ago
Excited for this, although I'm really hoping we get a linux release soon as well.
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
  Isn't it now based on webkit like Chrome, Safari, and Opera are? I don't understand the hubub if their performance and features will be so identical.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    It's more about which features they add/remove etc. So the core will be webkit, and will share those quirks. Meanwhile we still have stuff like extensions, privacy policies, dev tools, etc. Also they have the ability now to tweak webkit to their needs. You're right, most "new browsers" are essentially just chromium, I'm hoping since MS is large enough that they'll make it unique in some way - great dev tools and privacy would win me over for example.
  - nimrody 7y ago
    It's based on Chromium which uses Blink as its rendering engine, which was forked off WebKit (which was derived from KDE's KHTML and now powers Apple's Safari). Opera is also based on Blink.
butz 7y ago
Can we start waving goodbye to IE11?
- ChrisSD 7y ago
  Use of IE11 is largely tied in to Enterprise applications. Whatever happens to Edge it won't make IE11 die any sooner.
  - lousken 7y ago
    False - https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-chromium-build-2019-pwa-ie-mode-devtools/ https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-chromium... they're bringing IE mode to Edge Chromium
    - ChrisSD 7y ago
      Yes, that's still an IE11 window in an Edge skin. And that blog post specifically calls out "seamless enterprise compatibility" as being the reason for it.
      - lousken 7y ago
        Yes but it'll be left to sysadmins on which sites to enable this mode - "Microsoft Edge uses your existing Enterprise Mode Site List to identify sites which require IE rendering and simply switches to Internet Explorer mode behind the scenes." So user can't just turn it on himself
    - kgwxd 7y ago
      Yeah, that will work out as well as "Compatibility Mode" in previous versions. What you'll really get is a whole different browser that has to be tested against with it's own unique bugs to work around.
      - WorldMaker 7y ago
        "IE Mode" is just IE11 virtualized into a tab container, with strict Enterprise-only opt in to it with a specific site list. It won't have the "Compatibility Mode" problems of needing to opt-out through strict DOCTYPES or server headers or trying to figure out magic like it thinks it needs "Compatibility Mode" because it is Monday on a leap year and uses a JS library with the name of the same JS library that would have a leap year Monday problem if it didn't run in "Compatibility Mode", at least. It may prolong some Enterprise's dependency on very old sites or addons they should have weened themselves out of a decade ago, but you can't magically fix sunk costs (or stupid, for that matter).
octosphere 7y ago
Interesting that the download button says "Not supported for Linux" when you're using Linux. But what if I want to try this out on Windows, but use Linux to acquire the software? Sniffing the useragent and providing the relevant message is annoying for users, because if they want the software, they are going to find ways of acquiring it, regardless of the useragent sniff in place. Note: I downloaded the beta version, and within 10 minutes of using it, it crashed. I reported the crash however so hopefully they can fix this
- cbsks 7y ago
  If you click on "More platforms and channels" and then scroll down to "Other Platforms", there are download links for Windows and macOS that work regardless of your useragent.
agdpf 7y ago
Does this have a level of telemetry comparable to that of Google Chrome? I've been looking for a Chromium-based alternative to Chrome and I'm still waiting. Vivaldi looks like it, but it's still a bit too rough around the edges to be used as a daily browser.
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
  I would think so and that it would be more likely given M$'s track record.
- jjuel 7y ago
  What about Brave?
  - agdpf 7y ago
    I support Eich, but I don't like the idea of Brave. I want a neutral browser. Brave is not neutral, since it comes bundled with software that blocks ads and some crypto crap. I want to block ads, but I want to do it my way and to be in control.
    - skrowl 7y ago
      The BAT sh*tcoin stuff turned me off to Brave. I've been using Dissenter which removed all of that (and more crud) from Brave, but it doesn't seem to update very often. I like the every 6 week cadence that Edge is promising.
    - mixedCase 7y ago
      I run Brave shield with uBlock Origin over here, and disable the former on some sites when it inevitably breaks something because it can go a bit too far for the "modern development" world; but you can disable it globally. I don't sign up for their crypto stuff either and there's a toggle to hide it.
    - sodosopa 7y ago
      You can turn the coins off. It’s not heavily in the UI. The blocking works fine. You’re in control, just click the blooming icon.
chappi42 7y ago
"The attributes that you say matter most in your browsing experience are performance, privacy, and reliability. So that is where we are starting." Sounds good.
- java-man 7y ago
  Does not inspire confidence, if we were to look at what Microsoft did to Skype and all the mandatory telemetry they added in Windows 10.
  - gilrain 7y ago
    The difference is that they're a nobody in the browser space. Like Chrome did at first, they have no choice but to legitimately be better until they win market share. Then we'll see.
    - java-man 7y ago
      Not sure if I agree with this. They used to be a major player in the browser area, remember IE? The somehow lost the market share, possibly because they focused on something else instead of innovation and solving the problems of the users. I think it is naive to expect them to suddenly change, especially given the recent history of clearly going against user's interests in introducing mandatory telemetry. Case in point: win10 still overwrites user's default application preferences and fonts pretty much on every update.
      - superturkey650 7y ago
        I believe the point the person you replied to was trying to make was that while they add telemetry and have issues with the products where they dominate the market, they try much harder to produce the best product when they are underdogs. With IE, they started being user-hostile and taking their users for granted because they owned the market. The same thing they are currently doing with Windows 10. They do this because they feel like they can. However, in markets they are trying to win, they are much more user-friendly and provide great products. You can see this in VS Code and the new Edge (personal opinions). Though, I do agree that just because they are being friendly now doesn't mean they won't do the same shit they did with IE once they gain the market back. This isn't about Microsoft or Google's culture or history, this is the fact that any company that has little to no actual competition for a market will abuse that fact and take their users for granted.
dccoolgai 7y ago
Just noticed this is not hosted a microsoft.com URL as I was about to download. Is this thing above board? Any way to confirm that it's from Microsoft even though it's not their origin?
- redm 7y ago
  SSL Cert is valid and from "Issued by: Microsoft IT TLS CA 1"
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Well, this is the same site that has been providing Dev Channel builds for months now. Microsoft has a diverse set of domains and often uses project-specific domains.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  It is linked from here: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/
devoply 7y ago
Only way to make people switch is to make it privacy oriented like Safari now is... That would probably let Microsoft steal significant share away from Google. Privacy oriented Chrome, standards compliant, developer oriented. Do a 180 from the IE days which Google is now mimicking.
- olyjohn 7y ago
  No matter how good they make the privacy in the browser, will people really believe it? Microsoft has done nothing but say how much they care about your privacy and security through the whole IE lifecycle.
  - skrowl 7y ago
    Same as Safari. If any part of it is closed source, you're basically just taking their word for it that they're respecting your privacy. Firefox is fully open source.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And how many people have actually inspected the source code of Firefox closely enough to be sure what it is doing?
- opencl 7y ago
  The two biggest privacy-oriented browsers, Firefox and Safari, have ~10% and ~5% desktop market share[1]. It seems like the overwhelming majority of people do not care very much. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
  - devoply 7y ago
    They prefer the speed of Chrome. So give them that, with huge corporate backing, and privacy features and you have a good chance at taking some stuff away from Chrome.
Rapzid 7y ago
Does this meant that Chrome will be able to stream 1080p on the desktop in the future, or will only Microsoft's build of chromium be able to do that? *Stream 1080p with Netflix, Amazon, etc.
- outside1234 7y ago
  Yes - all of those work in the canary I have been running for the last few months.
outside1234 7y ago
For what its worth, I have been running Edge Chromium for the last few months, and when I first installed it I thought it would have a bunch of bugs that forced me back to Chrome. Nope. Its totally solid, and has completely supplanted Chrome on my Mac, including for web development (it has the same Chrome development tools). Highly recommended - sort of like the VSCode of browsers in my opinion.
- k_ 7y ago
  What makes it better than chrome or other browsers? Does it have some key features that make it good appart from not being owned by google?
  - outside1234 7y ago
    No Google spyware is the key feature from my perspective, but I also feel like the interface is cleaner as well.
    - kyriakos 7y ago
      Yes, Microsoft seems to be better at UI for sure but spyware its just replaced with Microsoft's i guess.
      - rinchik 7y ago
        Ah stop it. MS not even close to the decadent stuff that G is doing, insensitive, business models, product users are also completely different.
        k_ 7y ago
        Agreed. "Aggressive" telemetry is still annoying, but google is on a whole other level.
        robocat 7y ago
        But MS clearly wants to be funded by advertising: obviously signalled by not charging for Windows 10 upgrades, and the "telemetry" and tendency towards an intrusive advertising model (e.g. "join Teams" popup on login in recent update).
SanchoPanda 7y ago
I am impressed with the options page and the site permissions page in particular. I ws able to set most preferences as I wanted fairly quickly. I was dissapointed that continue running background apps was enabled by default however. It feels like it would be reasonable to wait until I tried to use something that required it and only then bother asking me. Edit: Whatever goodwill on settings was eaten up when change default search provider was hidden two levels deep, first under "Privacy and Services" and then under "Address Bar". Edge team, you know full well most people will want to change this at first. It should have its own settings top level page, more or less in line with firefox.
skrowl 7y ago
Who is the target market for this? Is this going to be the default browser in the next feature update version of Windows 10?
- hollerith 7y ago
  Microsoft has announced that the default browser on Windows 10 will eventually be Chrome-based.
- TimTheTinker 7y ago
  > Is this going to be the default browser in the next feature update version of Windows 10? This will eventually replace the current Edge on Windows 10, so the answer is "yes - sometime in the future". Additionally, it's already available on Windows 7 and 8. To me, this means many developers will be more able to argue the case for deprecating IE11 support.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Current signs indicate that it is not for the next feature update version (19H2), but some later one. It's not even default in current Insider builds (currently in the fast ring) for the following feature update 20H1 yet. When it will become the Windows 10 default is an interesting open question right now, and the exact roadmap doesn't seem entirely transparent yet. This move to the Beta release channel seems to indicate possible confidence in it. Windows 10 isn't the only target market though. Microsoft has made it clear they want Windows 7 users, the odd minority of users still on Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, and even macOS users for this new Edge. This "cross-platform vision" was supposedly a key reason to rebuild on top of Chromium in the first place. (Interesting rumors even state that Microsoft is hoping to push it as the "final" default browser for Windows 7 in a final security/feature update/mini-service-pack roll up sometime before the April 2020 end of security date for Windows 7 in a hope of leaving Windows 7 at the end of its ordinary security support life and the start of its extended support phase in a better place than Windows XP was left.)
- iamaelephant 7y ago
  I'm the target market, I suppose. I don't want to keep supporting Chrome because Google is too creepy. Firefox doesn't work for me on my laptops because the trackpad and touchscreen support is woeful. I have been using old Edge but that's discontinued (a real shame IMO). So Edge-ium really fits my needs.
hollerith 7y ago
What I want to know is whether I will be able to run Ublock Origin on it after Ublock Origin stops working on Google Chrome.
- lwansbrough 7y ago
  Just installed it: https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/insider-addons/detail/odfafepnkmbhccpbejgmiehpchacaeak https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/insider-addons/detail/od...
- skrowl 7y ago
  Presumably when Chromium adds the change that destroys UBlock Origin, it will be broken on all Chromium forks. I don't see how it wouldn't, unless they added code back in on top of Chromium to support the API they're removing.
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    That's what other forks have committed to doing already (and have done with API changes in the past) so I don't see why you are skeptical Microsoft would be able to.
    - gilrain 7y ago
      Indeed, of all the forks they're the most likely to have the resources to maintain a fork which diverges that much.
- rasz 7y ago
  Backporting is not the problem, whether Raymond Hill continue working on uBlock Origin after >90% market share vanishes overnight is.
sys_64738 7y ago
You gotta love M$ these days!
rinchik 7y ago
Finally! a stable Chrome alternative that allows an average Chrome user to switch away from Google without any loss of comfort! This is genius!
- jackfoxy 7y ago
  I've been using whatever the current Edge browser is in Windows10 for several years. (I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not.) But I am tired of 2 problems that never seem to get fixed and am contemplating switching to Firefox because of this: 1) Bookmark (favorite) maintenance still sucks. As one example, try moving a folder in the favorites bar from the bar to the ordered favorites list. 2) Edge advertises syncing (bookmarks, open tabs, etc.) across machines with the same user signed-in, but I have never gotten this to work.
  - jackfoxy 7y ago
    I even got 2nd tier Microsoft support on a call for the second problem. That level of MS support is usually quite good, but in this case it was totally ridiculous. The engineer did not even understand the advertised functionality, but instead kept steering me to bookmark export/import.
  - rinchik 7y ago
    > I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not. It's not. But hey! Good news! When this Beta will become stable Edge release, all you issues will be solved!
    - WorldMaker 7y ago
      Not necessarily, in some ways the Chromium-based Favorites tools feel like a regression from current Edge's, even accounting for how buggy it [production Edge's favorites side panel] still sometimes feels. Also, the synchronization engine is entirely different from both past Edge and Google's proprietary Chrome stuff, so all new places for all sorts of new bugs. Switching to Chromium won't be a magic fix for Edge's issues.
  - 7y ago
breendeen 7y ago
Preinstall and postinstall scripts for the Edge browser (macOS). Sudo-ing telemetry data. https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-scripts/tree/master/MicrosoftEdgeBeta-77.0.235.9 https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-scripts/tr...
- flatiron 7y ago
  yeah why the heck do they need sudo for their send event command?
s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
How do you change the new tab page? You can set which page to open on startup, but you can't seem to override the page that shows when a new tab is created.
- bla3 7y ago
  Do extensions from the chrome web store work? If so, there are many extensions for swapping out the new tab page there.
  - filmgirlcw 7y ago
    Yes, they do. Just hit a toggle to "allow extensions from other stores" in the Extensions settings and then you can install directly from the Chrome store pages.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    It's just strange that Chrome allows you to change the new tab page but Edge doesn't.
Someone1234 7y ago
Edge's "IE Mode" is depressing. We fit exactly into the problem space it aims to solve (enterprise with a mix of both Java Applets and modern "internal" web sites that could target current web-standards if not for the Java Applets backlog). The problem with "IE Mode" as implemented is that it only works for devices connected to AD/fully managed. Our "internal" sites (both Java Applet and modern) are externally accessible and via BYOD like a lot of enterprises today. Employees work from home. Employees work remotely. I can see why "website list" would be their preferred solution to routing, but unfortunately it won't work for a lot of enterprises in 2019. We aren't using internal sites like 2005 anymore, they're "internal" only in name and function, they're very much externally accessible (even via VPN in some cases, but you aren't managing the actual device).
- derefr 7y ago
  In the enterprises I've worked in, BYOD devices are still fully managed. Usually, you must enrol your device in enterprise MDM in order to connect to the corporate VPN. Presumably, this type of enterprise is the type Microsoft is targeting with IE compatibility mode.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    That seems pretty inflexible, and a potential invasion of employee's privacy. I'm talking about employees being able to input their leave/overtime into an externally facing "internal" web-portal, or looking up tickets/jobs. Requiring that they allow full enterprise control of every device that would access an internet facing website seems dragonian.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      There are a few solutions: 1. Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors. The company can easily pay some consultants who would gladly take their money. 2. Provide a company device. 3. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices.
loudmax 7y ago
The download page says "Investing in open source", but it also says "Not supported for Linux". I'm going to take a guess that no other open source operating systems are supported either, unless you count Android. Maybe they have a Linux or FreeBSD version in the works. From what I'm seeing right now, the new Microsoft supports open source, so long as you're on a proprietary platform. Should I be surprised?
- iamaelephant 7y ago
  Lots of people invest in open source without supporting or investing in Linux. There's a whole universe of open source.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    That's true, but Microsoft is supposedly making a push into Linux and by leaving it out you're cutting off a huge chunk of OSS enthusiasts.
    - Proven 7y ago
      Nobody is cutting off anything. If it doesn’t support Linux today it doesn’t mean it won’t support it tomorrow. The “but does it run Linux” comment is a complete garbage, by the way - the answer is provided in the online FAQs but why read it when it’s not a prerequisite for commenting
- zamadatix 7y ago
  They don't seem to be expecting a Linux release soon https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c094uf/hi_reddit_were_the_team_behind_microsoft_edge_and/er2wgas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c094uf/hi_reddit_were... Chrome/Chromium on Linux isn't even all that well supported sadly enough.
  - jhasse 7y ago
    > Chrome/Chromium on Linux isn't even all that well supported sadly enough. What makes you think that? I'm using Chromium as my daily driver and it even comes with hardware video acceleration (chromium-vaapi package from Fedora + RPMFusion). In my experience Linusmx support is a lot better than Firefox'.
dgellow 7y ago
So, no more "Add Notes" feature? That's what made me use Edge as my main browser on my personal machine. Being able to quickly save a page, add notes by hand using a stylus, is just great.
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Hopefully it will come back. (It may be a ghost of its former self if it does, because they announced the EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead. Chrome Edge will have Chromium's [arguably inferior] PDF support instead.) It probably won't; Chrome Edge can't directly share so much OneNote code in the same way, and so presumably the focus will move to "Share with OneNote"/"Print to OneNote" instead. In maybe better news, at least the "Collections" tools currently in "Experimental Options" sound like they may, when fully baked, be improved experiences over the venerable "Set Tabs Aside", maybe.
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    > EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead. Wut? That's exactly what I use Edge for.
    - WorldMaker 7y ago
      Yeah, the Edge codebase change and its resultant loss of that UWP EPUB reader was listed as one of the key factors in that much publicized case of Microsoft entirely shutting down their Ebook store. In early Windows 8 history the UWP PDF Reader (that went on to also be the EPUB Reader) was available as a separate app in the Windows 8 Store just called "Reader", before it merged into Edge. I wish they would spin it back out into a new Reader app again, just to keep a useful extra option around for PDF and EPUB files, but it sounds like the code shares too much with the EdgeHTML Renderer they are entirely spinning down for them to do that, which is a shame.
      - qwerty456127 7y ago
        I wouldn't mind a reader app to keep using the old Edge engine. It hardly needs new web standards support anyway.
agdpf 7y ago
I don't like that the start page is so "Microsofty"--it contains MSN News and you can't disable Bing.
- sahaskatta 7y ago
  I was able to change the search engine to Google or DuckDuckGo in a few clicks in the settings page.
  - agdpf 7y ago
    Me too but it only seems to affect the address bar. The "new tab page" search bar still defaults to Bing.
    - rishav_sharan 7y ago
      @agdpf, I work in the Edge team and have passed this feedback to the relevant team. In case you have any other feedback, I would encourage you to also use the smiley icon on the top right of the browser to directly them to us.
Faark 7y ago
Yeah, I don't like it. I opened both old edge and this side by side with only this HN thread open. Scrolling on old feels way quicker... no white, un-rendered areas as in the chrome version when quickly jumping through the document. Memory usage went up 50ish percent (initially had committed a lot more, but it seems to by now have freed that half gig it used earlier). "Read aloud" TTS seems to read significantly slower on 2x speed than old edge (same voice). All of this before adding adblock to beta, but I'd expect this only makes it worse with nothing but HN open. At least they kept some of the most garbage parts the same... like the addon store not even having a search function. Apparently not even sort beyond alphabetically. But that fits MS apparent mantra of dumbing down stuff so much as to make more advanced use-cases near impossible. And doesn't seems to have uBlock anyway, so who cares... I just hope I don't have to search a new trustworthy one once current edge is gone :( Yeah, still a long way off from what I'd wish for...
- pedrocx486 7y ago
  >And doesn't seems to have uBlock anyway, so who cares... You can install add-ons from the Chrome Web Store.
PauloManrique 7y ago
>Investing in open source >No support for the biggest open source OS. The irony is stunning.

94 points by thomaspark 7y ago

This is different from the Dev channel that they had opened up awhile back, in case anyone else gets confused as I did for a few moments. I really like it. In my opinion, its the best version of Chrom(ium) you can get on Windows and Mac. Very snappy. And they already have some neat developer tooling around it. There is a vscode extension to do live reloads with with it, and see/manipulate the DOM and do other debugging/measuring of your application. Good work here!

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

wlesieutre 7y ago

The macOS download link at the bottom directs me to https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-link} https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/{macos-link} Is there somewhere else to find this? EDIT - Use the "More platforms and channels" link under the big Windows download button, then the dropdown menus on that page to get the Mac version.

dag11 7y ago
https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/?platform=macos https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/?platfor... Seem to be working here.

rckclmbr 7y ago

Excited for this, although I'm really hoping we get a linux release soon as well.

0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
Isn't it now based on webkit like Chrome, Safari, and Opera are? I don't understand the hubub if their performance and features will be so identical.
- penagwin 7y ago
  It's more about which features they add/remove etc. So the core will be webkit, and will share those quirks. Meanwhile we still have stuff like extensions, privacy policies, dev tools, etc. Also they have the ability now to tweak webkit to their needs. You're right, most "new browsers" are essentially just chromium, I'm hoping since MS is large enough that they'll make it unique in some way - great dev tools and privacy would win me over for example.
- nimrody 7y ago
  It's based on Chromium which uses Blink as its rendering engine, which was forked off WebKit (which was derived from KDE's KHTML and now powers Apple's Safari). Opera is also based on Blink.

butz 7y ago

Can we start waving goodbye to IE11?

ChrisSD 7y ago
Use of IE11 is largely tied in to Enterprise applications. Whatever happens to Edge it won't make IE11 die any sooner.
- lousken 7y ago
  False - https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-chromium-build-2019-pwa-ie-mode-devtools/ https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/05/06/edge-chromium... they're bringing IE mode to Edge Chromium
  - ChrisSD 7y ago
    Yes, that's still an IE11 window in an Edge skin. And that blog post specifically calls out "seamless enterprise compatibility" as being the reason for it.
    - lousken 7y ago
      Yes but it'll be left to sysadmins on which sites to enable this mode - "Microsoft Edge uses your existing Enterprise Mode Site List to identify sites which require IE rendering and simply switches to Internet Explorer mode behind the scenes." So user can't just turn it on himself
  - kgwxd 7y ago
    Yeah, that will work out as well as "Compatibility Mode" in previous versions. What you'll really get is a whole different browser that has to be tested against with it's own unique bugs to work around.
    - WorldMaker 7y ago
      "IE Mode" is just IE11 virtualized into a tab container, with strict Enterprise-only opt in to it with a specific site list. It won't have the "Compatibility Mode" problems of needing to opt-out through strict DOCTYPES or server headers or trying to figure out magic like it thinks it needs "Compatibility Mode" because it is Monday on a leap year and uses a JS library with the name of the same JS library that would have a leap year Monday problem if it didn't run in "Compatibility Mode", at least. It may prolong some Enterprise's dependency on very old sites or addons they should have weened themselves out of a decade ago, but you can't magically fix sunk costs (or stupid, for that matter).

octosphere 7y ago

Interesting that the download button says "Not supported for Linux" when you're using Linux. But what if I want to try this out on Windows, but use Linux to acquire the software? Sniffing the useragent and providing the relevant message is annoying for users, because if they want the software, they are going to find ways of acquiring it, regardless of the useragent sniff in place. Note: I downloaded the beta version, and within 10 minutes of using it, it crashed. I reported the crash however so hopefully they can fix this

cbsks 7y ago
If you click on "More platforms and channels" and then scroll down to "Other Platforms", there are download links for Windows and macOS that work regardless of your useragent.

agdpf 7y ago

Does this have a level of telemetry comparable to that of Google Chrome? I've been looking for a Chromium-based alternative to Chrome and I'm still waiting. Vivaldi looks like it, but it's still a bit too rough around the edges to be used as a daily browser.

0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
I would think so and that it would be more likely given M$'s track record.
jjuel 7y ago
What about Brave?
- agdpf 7y ago
  I support Eich, but I don't like the idea of Brave. I want a neutral browser. Brave is not neutral, since it comes bundled with software that blocks ads and some crypto crap. I want to block ads, but I want to do it my way and to be in control.
  - skrowl 7y ago
    The BAT sh*tcoin stuff turned me off to Brave. I've been using Dissenter which removed all of that (and more crud) from Brave, but it doesn't seem to update very often. I like the every 6 week cadence that Edge is promising.
  - mixedCase 7y ago
    I run Brave shield with uBlock Origin over here, and disable the former on some sites when it inevitably breaks something because it can go a bit too far for the "modern development" world; but you can disable it globally. I don't sign up for their crypto stuff either and there's a toggle to hide it.
  - sodosopa 7y ago
    You can turn the coins off. It’s not heavily in the UI. The blocking works fine. You’re in control, just click the blooming icon.

chappi42 7y ago

"The attributes that you say matter most in your browsing experience are performance, privacy, and reliability. So that is where we are starting." Sounds good.

java-man 7y ago
Does not inspire confidence, if we were to look at what Microsoft did to Skype and all the mandatory telemetry they added in Windows 10.
- gilrain 7y ago
  The difference is that they're a nobody in the browser space. Like Chrome did at first, they have no choice but to legitimately be better until they win market share. Then we'll see.
  - java-man 7y ago
    Not sure if I agree with this. They used to be a major player in the browser area, remember IE? The somehow lost the market share, possibly because they focused on something else instead of innovation and solving the problems of the users. I think it is naive to expect them to suddenly change, especially given the recent history of clearly going against user's interests in introducing mandatory telemetry. Case in point: win10 still overwrites user's default application preferences and fonts pretty much on every update.
    - superturkey650 7y ago
      I believe the point the person you replied to was trying to make was that while they add telemetry and have issues with the products where they dominate the market, they try much harder to produce the best product when they are underdogs. With IE, they started being user-hostile and taking their users for granted because they owned the market. The same thing they are currently doing with Windows 10. They do this because they feel like they can. However, in markets they are trying to win, they are much more user-friendly and provide great products. You can see this in VS Code and the new Edge (personal opinions). Though, I do agree that just because they are being friendly now doesn't mean they won't do the same shit they did with IE once they gain the market back. This isn't about Microsoft or Google's culture or history, this is the fact that any company that has little to no actual competition for a market will abuse that fact and take their users for granted.

dccoolgai 7y ago

Just noticed this is not hosted a microsoft.com URL as I was about to download. Is this thing above board? Any way to confirm that it's from Microsoft even though it's not their origin?

redm 7y ago
SSL Cert is valid and from "Issued by: Microsoft IT TLS CA 1"
WorldMaker 7y ago
Well, this is the same site that has been providing Dev Channel builds for months now. Microsoft has a diverse set of domains and often uses project-specific domains.
Someone1234 7y ago
It is linked from here: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/

devoply 7y ago

Only way to make people switch is to make it privacy oriented like Safari now is... That would probably let Microsoft steal significant share away from Google. Privacy oriented Chrome, standards compliant, developer oriented. Do a 180 from the IE days which Google is now mimicking.

olyjohn 7y ago
No matter how good they make the privacy in the browser, will people really believe it? Microsoft has done nothing but say how much they care about your privacy and security through the whole IE lifecycle.
- skrowl 7y ago
  Same as Safari. If any part of it is closed source, you're basically just taking their word for it that they're respecting your privacy. Firefox is fully open source.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    And how many people have actually inspected the source code of Firefox closely enough to be sure what it is doing?
opencl 7y ago
The two biggest privacy-oriented browsers, Firefox and Safari, have ~10% and ~5% desktop market share[1]. It seems like the overwhelming majority of people do not care very much. [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...
- devoply 7y ago
  They prefer the speed of Chrome. So give them that, with huge corporate backing, and privacy features and you have a good chance at taking some stuff away from Chrome.

Rapzid 7y ago

Does this meant that Chrome will be able to stream 1080p on the desktop in the future, or will only Microsoft's build of chromium be able to do that? *Stream 1080p with Netflix, Amazon, etc.

outside1234 7y ago
Yes - all of those work in the canary I have been running for the last few months.

outside1234 7y ago

For what its worth, I have been running Edge Chromium for the last few months, and when I first installed it I thought it would have a bunch of bugs that forced me back to Chrome. Nope. Its totally solid, and has completely supplanted Chrome on my Mac, including for web development (it has the same Chrome development tools). Highly recommended - sort of like the VSCode of browsers in my opinion.

k_ 7y ago
What makes it better than chrome or other browsers? Does it have some key features that make it good appart from not being owned by google?
- outside1234 7y ago
  No Google spyware is the key feature from my perspective, but I also feel like the interface is cleaner as well.
  - kyriakos 7y ago
    Yes, Microsoft seems to be better at UI for sure but spyware its just replaced with Microsoft's i guess.
    - rinchik 7y ago
      Ah stop it. MS not even close to the decadent stuff that G is doing, insensitive, business models, product users are also completely different.
      - k_ 7y ago
        Agreed. "Aggressive" telemetry is still annoying, but google is on a whole other level.
      - robocat 7y ago
        But MS clearly wants to be funded by advertising: obviously signalled by not charging for Windows 10 upgrades, and the "telemetry" and tendency towards an intrusive advertising model (e.g. "join Teams" popup on login in recent update).

SanchoPanda 7y ago

I am impressed with the options page and the site permissions page in particular. I ws able to set most preferences as I wanted fairly quickly. I was dissapointed that continue running background apps was enabled by default however. It feels like it would be reasonable to wait until I tried to use something that required it and only then bother asking me. Edit: Whatever goodwill on settings was eaten up when change default search provider was hidden two levels deep, first under "Privacy and Services" and then under "Address Bar". Edge team, you know full well most people will want to change this at first. It should have its own settings top level page, more or less in line with firefox.

skrowl 7y ago

Who is the target market for this? Is this going to be the default browser in the next feature update version of Windows 10?

hollerith 7y ago
Microsoft has announced that the default browser on Windows 10 will eventually be Chrome-based.
TimTheTinker 7y ago
> Is this going to be the default browser in the next feature update version of Windows 10? This will eventually replace the current Edge on Windows 10, so the answer is "yes - sometime in the future". Additionally, it's already available on Windows 7 and 8. To me, this means many developers will be more able to argue the case for deprecating IE11 support.
WorldMaker 7y ago
Current signs indicate that it is not for the next feature update version (19H2), but some later one. It's not even default in current Insider builds (currently in the fast ring) for the following feature update 20H1 yet. When it will become the Windows 10 default is an interesting open question right now, and the exact roadmap doesn't seem entirely transparent yet. This move to the Beta release channel seems to indicate possible confidence in it. Windows 10 isn't the only target market though. Microsoft has made it clear they want Windows 7 users, the odd minority of users still on Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, and even macOS users for this new Edge. This "cross-platform vision" was supposedly a key reason to rebuild on top of Chromium in the first place. (Interesting rumors even state that Microsoft is hoping to push it as the "final" default browser for Windows 7 in a final security/feature update/mini-service-pack roll up sometime before the April 2020 end of security date for Windows 7 in a hope of leaving Windows 7 at the end of its ordinary security support life and the start of its extended support phase in a better place than Windows XP was left.)
iamaelephant 7y ago
I'm the target market, I suppose. I don't want to keep supporting Chrome because Google is too creepy. Firefox doesn't work for me on my laptops because the trackpad and touchscreen support is woeful. I have been using old Edge but that's discontinued (a real shame IMO). So Edge-ium really fits my needs.

hollerith 7y ago

What I want to know is whether I will be able to run Ublock Origin on it after Ublock Origin stops working on Google Chrome.

lwansbrough 7y ago
Just installed it: https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/insider-addons/detail/odfafepnkmbhccpbejgmiehpchacaeak https://microsoftedge.microsoft.com/insider-addons/detail/od...
skrowl 7y ago
Presumably when Chromium adds the change that destroys UBlock Origin, it will be broken on all Chromium forks. I don't see how it wouldn't, unless they added code back in on top of Chromium to support the API they're removing.
- zamadatix 7y ago
  That's what other forks have committed to doing already (and have done with API changes in the past) so I don't see why you are skeptical Microsoft would be able to.
  - gilrain 7y ago
    Indeed, of all the forks they're the most likely to have the resources to maintain a fork which diverges that much.
rasz 7y ago
Backporting is not the problem, whether Raymond Hill continue working on uBlock Origin after >90% market share vanishes overnight is.

sys_64738 7y ago

You gotta love M$ these days!

rinchik 7y ago

Finally! a stable Chrome alternative that allows an average Chrome user to switch away from Google without any loss of comfort! This is genius!

jackfoxy 7y ago
I've been using whatever the current Edge browser is in Windows10 for several years. (I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not.) But I am tired of 2 problems that never seem to get fixed and am contemplating switching to Firefox because of this: 1) Bookmark (favorite) maintenance still sucks. As one example, try moving a folder in the favorites bar from the bar to the ordered favorites list. 2) Edge advertises syncing (bookmarks, open tabs, etc.) across machines with the same user signed-in, but I have never gotten this to work.
- jackfoxy 7y ago
  I even got 2nd tier Microsoft support on a call for the second problem. That level of MS support is usually quite good, but in this case it was totally ridiculous. The engineer did not even understand the advertised functionality, but instead kept steering me to bookmark export/import.
- rinchik 7y ago
  > I don't know if that is current the "Chorme" Edge or not. It's not. But hey! Good news! When this Beta will become stable Edge release, all you issues will be solved!
  - WorldMaker 7y ago
    Not necessarily, in some ways the Chromium-based Favorites tools feel like a regression from current Edge's, even accounting for how buggy it [production Edge's favorites side panel] still sometimes feels. Also, the synchronization engine is entirely different from both past Edge and Google's proprietary Chrome stuff, so all new places for all sorts of new bugs. Switching to Chromium won't be a magic fix for Edge's issues.
- 7y ago

breendeen 7y ago

Preinstall and postinstall scripts for the Edge browser (macOS). Sudo-ing telemetry data. https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-scripts/tree/master/MicrosoftEdgeBeta-77.0.235.9 https://github.com/sizeofcat/microsoft-edge-macos-scripts/tr...

flatiron 7y ago
yeah why the heck do they need sudo for their send event command?

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago

How do you change the new tab page? You can set which page to open on startup, but you can't seem to override the page that shows when a new tab is created.

bla3 7y ago
Do extensions from the chrome web store work? If so, there are many extensions for swapping out the new tab page there.
- filmgirlcw 7y ago
  Yes, they do. Just hit a toggle to "allow extensions from other stores" in the Extensions settings and then you can install directly from the Chrome store pages.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  It's just strange that Chrome allows you to change the new tab page but Edge doesn't.

Someone1234 7y ago

Edge's "IE Mode" is depressing. We fit exactly into the problem space it aims to solve (enterprise with a mix of both Java Applets and modern "internal" web sites that could target current web-standards if not for the Java Applets backlog). The problem with "IE Mode" as implemented is that it only works for devices connected to AD/fully managed. Our "internal" sites (both Java Applet and modern) are externally accessible and via BYOD like a lot of enterprises today. Employees work from home. Employees work remotely. I can see why "website list" would be their preferred solution to routing, but unfortunately it won't work for a lot of enterprises in 2019. We aren't using internal sites like 2005 anymore, they're "internal" only in name and function, they're very much externally accessible (even via VPN in some cases, but you aren't managing the actual device).

derefr 7y ago
In the enterprises I've worked in, BYOD devices are still fully managed. Usually, you must enrol your device in enterprise MDM in order to connect to the corporate VPN. Presumably, this type of enterprise is the type Microsoft is targeting with IE compatibility mode.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  That seems pretty inflexible, and a potential invasion of employee's privacy. I'm talking about employees being able to input their leave/overtime into an externally facing "internal" web-portal, or looking up tickets/jobs. Requiring that they allow full enterprise control of every device that would access an internet facing website seems dragonian.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    There are a few solutions: 1. Move away from what is probably a home grown bespoke time tracking system and use one of the many SASS vendors. The company can easily pay some consultants who would gladly take their money. 2. Provide a company device. 3. On the extreme, setup some Citrix terminals they can log into from their devices.

loudmax 7y ago

The download page says "Investing in open source", but it also says "Not supported for Linux". I'm going to take a guess that no other open source operating systems are supported either, unless you count Android. Maybe they have a Linux or FreeBSD version in the works. From what I'm seeing right now, the new Microsoft supports open source, so long as you're on a proprietary platform. Should I be surprised?

iamaelephant 7y ago
Lots of people invest in open source without supporting or investing in Linux. There's a whole universe of open source.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  That's true, but Microsoft is supposedly making a push into Linux and by leaving it out you're cutting off a huge chunk of OSS enthusiasts.
  - Proven 7y ago
    Nobody is cutting off anything. If it doesn’t support Linux today it doesn’t mean it won’t support it tomorrow. The “but does it run Linux” comment is a complete garbage, by the way - the answer is provided in the online FAQs but why read it when it’s not a prerequisite for commenting
zamadatix 7y ago
They don't seem to be expecting a Linux release soon https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c094uf/hi_reddit_were_the_team_behind_microsoft_edge_and/er2wgas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/c094uf/hi_reddit_were... Chrome/Chromium on Linux isn't even all that well supported sadly enough.
- jhasse 7y ago
  > Chrome/Chromium on Linux isn't even all that well supported sadly enough. What makes you think that? I'm using Chromium as my daily driver and it even comes with hardware video acceleration (chromium-vaapi package from Fedora + RPMFusion). In my experience Linusmx support is a lot better than Firefox'.

dgellow 7y ago

So, no more "Add Notes" feature? That's what made me use Edge as my main browser on my personal machine. Being able to quickly save a page, add notes by hand using a stylus, is just great.

WorldMaker 7y ago
Hopefully it will come back. (It may be a ghost of its former self if it does, because they announced the EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead. Chrome Edge will have Chromium's [arguably inferior] PDF support instead.) It probably won't; Chrome Edge can't directly share so much OneNote code in the same way, and so presumably the focus will move to "Share with OneNote"/"Print to OneNote" instead. In maybe better news, at least the "Collections" tools currently in "Experimental Options" sound like they may, when fully baked, be improved experiences over the venerable "Set Tabs Aside", maybe.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  > EPUB and PDF readers are definitely dead. Wut? That's exactly what I use Edge for.
  - WorldMaker 7y ago
    Yeah, the Edge codebase change and its resultant loss of that UWP EPUB reader was listed as one of the key factors in that much publicized case of Microsoft entirely shutting down their Ebook store. In early Windows 8 history the UWP PDF Reader (that went on to also be the EPUB Reader) was available as a separate app in the Windows 8 Store just called "Reader", before it merged into Edge. I wish they would spin it back out into a new Reader app again, just to keep a useful extra option around for PDF and EPUB files, but it sounds like the code shares too much with the EdgeHTML Renderer they are entirely spinning down for them to do that, which is a shame.
    - qwerty456127 7y ago
      I wouldn't mind a reader app to keep using the old Edge engine. It hardly needs new web standards support anyway.

agdpf 7y ago

I don't like that the start page is so "Microsofty"--it contains MSN News and you can't disable Bing.

sahaskatta 7y ago
I was able to change the search engine to Google or DuckDuckGo in a few clicks in the settings page.
- agdpf 7y ago
  Me too but it only seems to affect the address bar. The "new tab page" search bar still defaults to Bing.
  - rishav_sharan 7y ago
    @agdpf, I work in the Edge team and have passed this feedback to the relevant team. In case you have any other feedback, I would encourage you to also use the smiley icon on the top right of the browser to directly them to us.

Faark 7y ago

Yeah, I don't like it. I opened both old edge and this side by side with only this HN thread open. Scrolling on old feels way quicker... no white, un-rendered areas as in the chrome version when quickly jumping through the document. Memory usage went up 50ish percent (initially had committed a lot more, but it seems to by now have freed that half gig it used earlier). "Read aloud" TTS seems to read significantly slower on 2x speed than old edge (same voice). All of this before adding adblock to beta, but I'd expect this only makes it worse with nothing but HN open. At least they kept some of the most garbage parts the same... like the addon store not even having a search function. Apparently not even sort beyond alphabetically. But that fits MS apparent mantra of dumbing down stuff so much as to make more advanced use-cases near impossible. And doesn't seems to have uBlock anyway, so who cares... I just hope I don't have to search a new trustworthy one once current edge is gone :( Yeah, still a long way off from what I'd wish for...

pedrocx486 7y ago
>And doesn't seems to have uBlock anyway, so who cares... You can install add-ons from the Chrome Web Store.

PauloManrique 7y ago

>Investing in open source >No support for the biggest open source OS. The irony is stunning.