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Is “would you like to?” really a firm request? I would definitely interpret that as a genuine question meant to gauge my desire. “Would you?” and “could you?” a

Is “would you like to?” really a firm request? I would definitely interpret that as a genuine question meant to gauge my desire. “Would you?” and “could you?” are, of course, different.

mlyle 7y ago
It can be a moderately firm request depending upon tone. The thing is, it's not really the "no" per se but the fact that the manager has asked in a gentle way and internally expects a gentle response with context. "I'd really prefer not to-- isn't XX supposed to handle that?" "I can't, because I just have too many other tasks" Internally, there's a bit of a "hot stove" reaction to "I asked gently and he just bluntly refused!"
CydeWeys 7y ago
It really depends on the person making the request. I've absolutely worked with people for whom asking if you'd like to do something effectively meant they expected you to do it. This depends a lot on societal context too. Imagine in a deferential society like Japan, if your boss asks if you'd like to do something, the answer is yes. You don't say no to your boss. Plenty of people with those kinds of expectations are managers in American tech companies too.
- mikeash 7y ago
  This stuff is definitely highly dependent on the local culture. In the US specifically, though, I’d take this as a genuine question. Any manager who didn’t get that is going to either learn to change their ways or will be perpetually frustrated.
alistairSH 7y ago
I'm a manager. If I made that request, I have left the door open for a refusal BUT I would expect an explanation ("No, I can't do X because of Y..."). Also, if I received a firm "No" I wouldn't panic or read anything into it. I'd simply ask a follow up question or rephrase the request.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Which is to say -- to your credit -- you'd do more to gauge the meaning of the reply and clarify your request than the manager in the story did!
entelechy0 7y ago
My own fucking parents and family ask me if 'I'd like to' shit that I do not want to do all the time, so I tell them "No, but if you'd like for me to, I can help you" so that it is 100% CLEAR that it is THEY who need ME to do something for THEM. I don't need to do anything
filoleg 7y ago
Regardless of whether it is a firm request or not, a proper response to that shouldn't just be a flat "no". It should be along the lines of "no, because X and Y I am working on right now seems to be a higher priority, do you agree?" Saying flat "no" just wastes everyone's time, because the next few sentences would just be wasted on the manager trying to coax those reasons for "no" out of the engineer. It has nothing to do with politeness or social rituals or anything of that nature. I view it just as wasteful as people messaging me on work Slack with "Hey" and waiting for the person to respond before the OP will post the reason for trying to reach out to you. [0] 0. http://www.nohello.com/ http://www.nohello.com/

Is “would you like to?” really a firm request? I would definitely interpret that as a genuine question meant to gauge my desire. “Would you?” and “could you?” are, of course, different.

mlyle 7y ago

It can be a moderately firm request depending upon tone. The thing is, it's not really the "no" per se but the fact that the manager has asked in a gentle way and internally expects a gentle response with context. "I'd really prefer not to-- isn't XX supposed to handle that?" "I can't, because I just have too many other tasks" Internally, there's a bit of a "hot stove" reaction to "I asked gently and he just bluntly refused!"

CydeWeys 7y ago

It really depends on the person making the request. I've absolutely worked with people for whom asking if you'd like to do something effectively meant they expected you to do it. This depends a lot on societal context too. Imagine in a deferential society like Japan, if your boss asks if you'd like to do something, the answer is yes. You don't say no to your boss. Plenty of people with those kinds of expectations are managers in American tech companies too.

mikeash 7y ago
This stuff is definitely highly dependent on the local culture. In the US specifically, though, I’d take this as a genuine question. Any manager who didn’t get that is going to either learn to change their ways or will be perpetually frustrated.

alistairSH 7y ago

I'm a manager. If I made that request, I have left the door open for a refusal BUT I would expect an explanation ("No, I can't do X because of Y..."). Also, if I received a firm "No" I wouldn't panic or read anything into it. I'd simply ask a follow up question or rephrase the request.

SilasX 7y ago
Which is to say -- to your credit -- you'd do more to gauge the meaning of the reply and clarify your request than the manager in the story did!

entelechy0 7y ago

My own fucking parents and family ask me if 'I'd like to' shit that I do not want to do all the time, so I tell them "No, but if you'd like for me to, I can help you" so that it is 100% CLEAR that it is THEY who need ME to do something for THEM. I don't need to do anything

filoleg 7y ago

Regardless of whether it is a firm request or not, a proper response to that shouldn't just be a flat "no". It should be along the lines of "no, because X and Y I am working on right now seems to be a higher priority, do you agree?" Saying flat "no" just wastes everyone's time, because the next few sentences would just be wasted on the manager trying to coax those reasons for "no" out of the engineer. It has nothing to do with politeness or social rituals or anything of that nature. I view it just as wasteful as people messaging me on work Slack with "Hey" and waiting for the person to respond before the OP will post the reason for trying to reach out to you. [0] 0. http://www.nohello.com/ http://www.nohello.com/