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> that don’t look great for the FAA... I am not sure I understand. The crashes where in Indonesia and Ethiopia and those planes weren’t under the jurisdiction

> that don’t look great for the FAA... I am not sure I understand. The crashes where in Indonesia and Ethiopia and those planes weren’t under the jurisdiction of the FAA: presumably they were inspected by the relevant aviation authorities in those countries. There weren’t any crashes in the US, so how does that make the FAA look bad? The US commercial aviation safety rate is unsurpassed and exceptionally good. I’d say the FAA has a pretty good track record. Just looking at the operational history of Indonesian airlines — it’s clear that their regulatory body has a serious problem. But the FAA? The American safety record is compelling.

swampthinker 7y ago
The FAA waited for 2 catastrophic failures with the MAX before grounding all planes, risking the safety of thousands.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Even after those failures they seemed doggedly committed to keeping the MAX in the air, until the issue was forced by foreign regulatory agencies.
tempguy9999 7y ago
> I’d say the FAA has a pretty good track record had
dahart 7y ago
Boeing is an American company and the FAA declared the Boeing Max safe to fly in US airspace, and didn't require the re-certification it should have had after major structural changes to the 737 design. What many people learned after the crashes is that the FAA is essentially letting Boeing certify their own airplanes, in an effort to be pro-business and soft on regulation. We are only lucky a crash didn't happen in US airspace, those crashes do count against the American safety record. > Just looking at the operational history of Indonesian airlines — it’s clear that their regulatory body has a serious problem "Problems" there, or not, it seems like a bad idea to try and blame the Indonesian airlines for a known design flaw in a Boeing airplane that the Boeing company tried to hide and cover with yet another known design flaw, the sum of which are known to have been the cause of both crashes. Boeing tried this tactic of blaming others, and it hasn't worked out well for them. Edit: I was having deja-vu and realized I've answered this very same question of you before. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837481 What is your reason for continuing to deny the role of the FAA in the 737 Max issue, and continuing to suggest that the crashes are the fault of the foreign operators that Boeing hid information from?
- sokoloff 7y ago
  > Boeing is an American company and the FAA declared the Boeing Max safe to fly in US airspace, and didn't require the re-certification it should have had after major structural changes to the 737 design. There's a pretty strong argument to be made that the 737-600 (first of the NextGen) was a far greater departure structurally from the 737 type certificate than the 737-Max was from the immediately preceding 737 aircraft. The Nextgen aircraft have a wingspan 16 feet wider, a wing area of 125% of the Classic 737, and a length as much as 44 feet longer (even slightly longer on the -Max). Certification of derivative aircraft on a common type certificate is extremely common and generally has proven to be safe over the years. This specific certification has serious deficiencies, but that doesn't mean the practice in general is wrong (IMO). In fact, the costs of certification from scratch are so high that it in some cases holds back development advances (because the optimization questions now include regulatory optimizations like "what can we certify under the old type certificate?" in addition to the actual physical engineering concerns.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> The crashes where in Indonesia and Ethiopia and those planes weren’t under the jurisdiction of the FAA To avoid requiring every plane be certified in every jurisdiction, regulators have agreements that let them rely on others' certifications. The 737 MAX wasn't independently by the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation; instead, they relied on the FAA to do its work. The failure is thus in the FAA's court. (Note: I don't think you should be getting downvoted for your comment. It's naive, but an honest misunderstanding.)

swampthinker 7y ago

The FAA waited for 2 catastrophic failures with the MAX before grounding all planes, risking the safety of thousands.

AndrewBissell 7y ago
Even after those failures they seemed doggedly committed to keeping the MAX in the air, until the issue was forced by foreign regulatory agencies.

tempguy9999 7y ago

> I’d say the FAA has a pretty good track record had

dahart 7y ago

Boeing is an American company and the FAA declared the Boeing Max safe to fly in US airspace, and didn't require the re-certification it should have had after major structural changes to the 737 design. What many people learned after the crashes is that the FAA is essentially letting Boeing certify their own airplanes, in an effort to be pro-business and soft on regulation. We are only lucky a crash didn't happen in US airspace, those crashes do count against the American safety record. > Just looking at the operational history of Indonesian airlines — it’s clear that their regulatory body has a serious problem "Problems" there, or not, it seems like a bad idea to try and blame the Indonesian airlines for a known design flaw in a Boeing airplane that the Boeing company tried to hide and cover with yet another known design flaw, the sum of which are known to have been the cause of both crashes. Boeing tried this tactic of blaming others, and it hasn't worked out well for them. Edit: I was having deja-vu and realized I've answered this very same question of you before. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19837481 What is your reason for continuing to deny the role of the FAA in the 737 Max issue, and continuing to suggest that the crashes are the fault of the foreign operators that Boeing hid information from?

sokoloff 7y ago
> Boeing is an American company and the FAA declared the Boeing Max safe to fly in US airspace, and didn't require the re-certification it should have had after major structural changes to the 737 design. There's a pretty strong argument to be made that the 737-600 (first of the NextGen) was a far greater departure structurally from the 737 type certificate than the 737-Max was from the immediately preceding 737 aircraft. The Nextgen aircraft have a wingspan 16 feet wider, a wing area of 125% of the Classic 737, and a length as much as 44 feet longer (even slightly longer on the -Max). Certification of derivative aircraft on a common type certificate is extremely common and generally has proven to be safe over the years. This specific certification has serious deficiencies, but that doesn't mean the practice in general is wrong (IMO). In fact, the costs of certification from scratch are so high that it in some cases holds back development advances (because the optimization questions now include regulatory optimizations like "what can we certify under the old type certificate?" in addition to the actual physical engineering concerns.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> The crashes where in Indonesia and Ethiopia and those planes weren’t under the jurisdiction of the FAA To avoid requiring every plane be certified in every jurisdiction, regulators have agreements that let them rely on others' certifications. The 737 MAX wasn't independently by the Indonesian Ministry of Transportation; instead, they relied on the FAA to do its work. The failure is thus in the FAA's court. (Note: I don't think you should be getting downvoted for your comment. It's naive, but an honest misunderstanding.)