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> Neither of us knew about Reflog at the time, so that didn't even get onto the list of things to try. Was "asking someone who knows how git works" on your lis

> Neither of us knew about Reflog at the time, so that didn't even get onto the list of things to try. Was "asking someone who knows how git works" on your list of things to try? What about "learning how git works"? Was that on your list? Frankly, you don't seem to have been trying very hard to get this work back.

nerdponx 7y ago
That's not the point, the point is that Git is a really bad interface to a really powerful system.
- ozim 7y ago
  Have you tried to operate an excavator? That thing is complicated compared to a car... But you know what? That is specialist tool. If you cannot operate with specialist tools you should not get a job of a specialist. I just had to write that rant out: https://wordpress.com/post/squarebits.wordpress.com/76 https://wordpress.com/post/squarebits.wordpress.com/76
  - creatornator 7y ago
    I wouldn't say "programmers who use version control" are a group of people who would qualify as "specialists". Especially since all programmers should be using version control. It should be a fundamental skill necessary to entering the field.
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    I'm quite adept at driving an excavator. I can pour wine out of the bucket of an excavator. It's quite easy with practice because muscle memory kicks in. But if excavators were as hard to use as git, I'd never have mastered them.
tom_ 7y ago
To be frank, your sales technique needs work.
- phaemon 7y ago
  To be frank, I've no interest in selling anything so don't need a sales technique. To be franker, I think the OP was talking crap. No-one loses a month of work and doesn't think to get advice on how to fix it. It's just a stupid "git is bad" story.
jlebar 7y ago
> Was "asking someone who knows how git works" on your list of things to try? If I can make an analogy. There's little love lost on HN for C++. Anytime people mention C++ (possibly even here in this thread) people come out of the woodwork to talk about how hard it is to use, how it has too many features, blah blah. I work in C++ every day. I don't think it's that hard. When I have a question, I walk over and ask Chandler Carruth and Richard Smith. They are happy to help me debug my templates. Richard is the editor of the C++ spec, and Chandler is a well-known speaker, look him up on YouTube. Over lunch we talk about new features of C++, we rant and gripe, and I learn. Most people do not have Chandler and Richard in their life. Knowing them and the other experts on my team is a huge privilege. So when someone complains that C++ is too hard (wait for it, someone is going to do it here in this very thread...), it would be pretty insensitive of me to tell them that they should just ask someone who knows how C++ works. Most of us in this thread do have someone in our life who is good at git, who helped us get started, and who saved our asses when we initially got stuck. Maybe that person isn't with us IRL, maybe that person is "just" a message board or IRC channel where we know we're welcome. But this too is a privilege. If you've ever had trouble with anything and not had someone you could ask -- be it with C++, or real analysis, or whatever -- then I'd say you shouldn't throw stones at someone whose "whatever" happens to be git.
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  Completely agree. Furthermore, I'm able to keep C and Common Lisp and most of Javascript and a bunch of other languages and Mercurial in my head (brain cache) so I rarely have to ask somebody how to use them. But try as I might, I cannot do so with C++ and git. They just make no logical sense to me.
- phaemon 7y ago
  Ok, then I'll give you an analogy in return: Someone posts that they'd tried to join two strings in C++ and print the result. And they couldn't figure out how to do it; they would keep losing the second string. So, they gave up and changed languages, losing a month's worth of work. Would you think that was reasonable, because they didn't have Chandler Carruth and Richard Smith available to help?
philpem 7y ago
This was years ago, when Git was relatively new (around the time Mercurial was at v0.8-0.9). Our "Git expert" was the one who blew away a month of work.

nerdponx 7y ago

That's not the point, the point is that Git is a really bad interface to a really powerful system.

ozim 7y ago
Have you tried to operate an excavator? That thing is complicated compared to a car... But you know what? That is specialist tool. If you cannot operate with specialist tools you should not get a job of a specialist. I just had to write that rant out: https://wordpress.com/post/squarebits.wordpress.com/76 https://wordpress.com/post/squarebits.wordpress.com/76
- creatornator 7y ago
  I wouldn't say "programmers who use version control" are a group of people who would qualify as "specialists". Especially since all programmers should be using version control. It should be a fundamental skill necessary to entering the field.
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  I'm quite adept at driving an excavator. I can pour wine out of the bucket of an excavator. It's quite easy with practice because muscle memory kicks in. But if excavators were as hard to use as git, I'd never have mastered them.

tom_ 7y ago

To be frank, your sales technique needs work.

phaemon 7y ago
To be frank, I've no interest in selling anything so don't need a sales technique. To be franker, I think the OP was talking crap. No-one loses a month of work and doesn't think to get advice on how to fix it. It's just a stupid "git is bad" story.

jlebar 7y ago

> Was "asking someone who knows how git works" on your list of things to try? If I can make an analogy. There's little love lost on HN for C++. Anytime people mention C++ (possibly even here in this thread) people come out of the woodwork to talk about how hard it is to use, how it has too many features, blah blah. I work in C++ every day. I don't think it's that hard. When I have a question, I walk over and ask Chandler Carruth and Richard Smith. They are happy to help me debug my templates. Richard is the editor of the C++ spec, and Chandler is a well-known speaker, look him up on YouTube. Over lunch we talk about new features of C++, we rant and gripe, and I learn. Most people do not have Chandler and Richard in their life. Knowing them and the other experts on my team is a huge privilege. So when someone complains that C++ is too hard (wait for it, someone is going to do it here in this very thread...), it would be pretty insensitive of me to tell them that they should just ask someone who knows how C++ works. Most of us in this thread do have someone in our life who is good at git, who helped us get started, and who saved our asses when we initially got stuck. Maybe that person isn't with us IRL, maybe that person is "just" a message board or IRC channel where we know we're welcome. But this too is a privilege. If you've ever had trouble with anything and not had someone you could ask -- be it with C++, or real analysis, or whatever -- then I'd say you shouldn't throw stones at someone whose "whatever" happens to be git.

dreamcompiler 7y ago
Completely agree. Furthermore, I'm able to keep C and Common Lisp and most of Javascript and a bunch of other languages and Mercurial in my head (brain cache) so I rarely have to ask somebody how to use them. But try as I might, I cannot do so with C++ and git. They just make no logical sense to me.
phaemon 7y ago
Ok, then I'll give you an analogy in return: Someone posts that they'd tried to join two strings in C++ and print the result. And they couldn't figure out how to do it; they would keep losing the second string. So, they gave up and changed languages, losing a month's worth of work. Would you think that was reasonable, because they didn't have Chandler Carruth and Richard Smith available to help?

philpem 7y ago

This was years ago, when Git was relatively new (around the time Mercurial was at v0.8-0.9). Our "Git expert" was the one who blew away a month of work.