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Courtney Dauwalter is my favorite runner, but the races where she dominated men were really not the most competitive ones. The theory I read says that differenc

Courtney Dauwalter is my favorite runner, but the races where she dominated men were really not the most competitive ones. The theory I read says that difference between the sexes gets less as the distance increases, but even in the marathon there is over a 10% difference between women's and men's world records. Or take UTMB, the most competitive ultra out there taking about 24 hours to finish. The women's winner was 33rd and 41st overall the last couple of years.

throwaway_law 7y ago
>The theory I read says that difference between the sexes gets less as the distance increases That is my understanding also. And that's all I am saying, I'm not saying a woman is going to go out and beat Bolt in 100M sprint or even win the WR for the mile. Still to acknowledge the playing field levels over distance and then dismissing those races as niche isn't fair. Read these comments, they suggest the only reason Daualter wins is because men don't practice these runs, that is ridiculous, no one is waking up and running 240 miles.
- buzzdenver 7y ago
  Is it Moab 240 that you're referring to? Tell me which of the men she beat was elite. Courtney had a great race at Western States last year and dominated the women's field, but she was 12th OA and almost 3 hours slower than the OA winner.
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    Here are the MOAB 240 (2017 results) I guess not a single runner is elite in your minds eye. You can also check the 2018 results and see if any live up to your standards as she holds the overall race/course record. https://ultrasignup.com/results_event.aspx?did=43733#id1410471 https://ultrasignup.com/results_event.aspx?did=43733#id14104... >Courtney had a great race at Western States last year and dominated the women's field, but she was 12th OA and almost 3 hours slower than the OA winner. And one year she failed to complete that race altogether. She holds multiple records, had has won multiple races overall, but certainly I'm not saying every time she races she wins. List of races she won (beat the men): Mueller Marathon Behind the Rocks Ultra Continental Divide Trail Run (50k) Coldwater Ruble (52 miles) Moab 240 (238 miles) The Bear Chase (50 miles) Riverbank one day (24 hour run) Desert Solstice (100 Miles) Javelina Jundred (100k) FANS (24 hour run) The Chatfield Ultra Race (100k) Tommyknowcker 12 hor & The mine shaft Half (100kk) Chase the Moon (12 hours)
    - buzzdenver 7y ago
      You tell me which of those races had an elite men's field and who those men were. Or give me odds that a woman will be top 5 at UTMB.
      - throwaway_law 7y ago
        Obviously its impossible, what is being said is if Courtney won, then the men's field was not elite. Courtney won those races, so by definition you won't find any of the men meet you definition of elite. I did give you the names of the races she won, you could look at the fields and confirm of the hundreds/thousands of runners she never beat an elite make runner. Here is a question, since your the authority how many ultra runners are elite and are they all male?
        buzzdenver 7y ago
        You're putting words in my mouth. Let's say elite men are top 5 overall at UTMB; that's why I asked you to give me odds for women making it there. But please prove me wrong by answering my question directly. Which race had an elite field of men that she beat. Not just one runner, because by that definition I have beaten sub 2:05 marathoners who DNF-ed.
        throwaway_law 7y ago
        What am I a Vegas odds maker? Again I can't prove a elite field of men in the races she won, because I don't know you definition. Only you know your definition of elite ultra runners, so why don't you look at the fields instead of having me guess? I can tell you plenty of the runners are ranked in the top 10% for their group (age/sex) overall, but something tells me that being a top 10% ultra runner in your group doesn't qualify one as Elite under your definition.
        buzzdenver 7y ago
        You have a much more generous definition of elite. To me elite is somebody who has a chance to win in any race regardless of who else shows up to compete. By that definition Courtney is an elite woman, but I do not believe that she would have a chance to win UTMB overall, or Moab 240 if all the best men showed up.

throwaway_law 7y ago

>The theory I read says that difference between the sexes gets less as the distance increases That is my understanding also. And that's all I am saying, I'm not saying a woman is going to go out and beat Bolt in 100M sprint or even win the WR for the mile. Still to acknowledge the playing field levels over distance and then dismissing those races as niche isn't fair. Read these comments, they suggest the only reason Daualter wins is because men don't practice these runs, that is ridiculous, no one is waking up and running 240 miles.

buzzdenver 7y ago
Is it Moab 240 that you're referring to? Tell me which of the men she beat was elite. Courtney had a great race at Western States last year and dominated the women's field, but she was 12th OA and almost 3 hours slower than the OA winner.
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  Here are the MOAB 240 (2017 results) I guess not a single runner is elite in your minds eye. You can also check the 2018 results and see if any live up to your standards as she holds the overall race/course record. https://ultrasignup.com/results_event.aspx?did=43733#id1410471 https://ultrasignup.com/results_event.aspx?did=43733#id14104... >Courtney had a great race at Western States last year and dominated the women's field, but she was 12th OA and almost 3 hours slower than the OA winner. And one year she failed to complete that race altogether. She holds multiple records, had has won multiple races overall, but certainly I'm not saying every time she races she wins. List of races she won (beat the men): Mueller Marathon Behind the Rocks Ultra Continental Divide Trail Run (50k) Coldwater Ruble (52 miles) Moab 240 (238 miles) The Bear Chase (50 miles) Riverbank one day (24 hour run) Desert Solstice (100 Miles) Javelina Jundred (100k) FANS (24 hour run) The Chatfield Ultra Race (100k) Tommyknowcker 12 hor & The mine shaft Half (100kk) Chase the Moon (12 hours)
  - buzzdenver 7y ago
    You tell me which of those races had an elite men's field and who those men were. Or give me odds that a woman will be top 5 at UTMB.
    - throwaway_law 7y ago
      Obviously its impossible, what is being said is if Courtney won, then the men's field was not elite. Courtney won those races, so by definition you won't find any of the men meet you definition of elite. I did give you the names of the races she won, you could look at the fields and confirm of the hundreds/thousands of runners she never beat an elite make runner. Here is a question, since your the authority how many ultra runners are elite and are they all male?
      - buzzdenver 7y ago
        You're putting words in my mouth. Let's say elite men are top 5 overall at UTMB; that's why I asked you to give me odds for women making it there. But please prove me wrong by answering my question directly. Which race had an elite field of men that she beat. Not just one runner, because by that definition I have beaten sub 2:05 marathoners who DNF-ed.
        throwaway_law 7y ago
        What am I a Vegas odds maker? Again I can't prove a elite field of men in the races she won, because I don't know you definition. Only you know your definition of elite ultra runners, so why don't you look at the fields instead of having me guess? I can tell you plenty of the runners are ranked in the top 10% for their group (age/sex) overall, but something tells me that being a top 10% ultra runner in your group doesn't qualify one as Elite under your definition.
        buzzdenver 7y ago
        You have a much more generous definition of elite. To me elite is somebody who has a chance to win in any race regardless of who else shows up to compete. By that definition Courtney is an elite woman, but I do not believe that she would have a chance to win UTMB overall, or Moab 240 if all the best men showed up.