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> Whether long or short races, women cannot physically compete with men. [Citation really seriously needed] Edit Haha, love the downvotes for asking for evide

> Whether long or short races, women cannot physically compete with men. [Citation really seriously needed] Edit Haha, love the downvotes for asking for evidence for an unsubstantiated claim.

tux1968 7y ago
The fact that there is a separate trophy which only women compete for, is a pretty good indicator that its generally true. Why else would a female trophy exist?
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  Historical preponderance of male competitors is an easy explanation off the top of my head. For an obvious example, Katherine Switzer, who entered the Boston Marathon in 1967 and got chased down for gasp being a woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOGXvBAmTsY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOGXvBAmTsY
  - tux1968 7y ago
    Organized races in America were predominantly white in the early days and yet when other ethnicities started to join (in small numbers at first) no special trophy was needed. They were able to compete immediately for the overall trophy just like all the other men. Historical exclusion from competition doesn't make sense as a reason for modern under performance.
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      Did you watch the video I linked about how women were explicitly discouraged/banned from entering long-distance running? The now infamous image is from 1967.
      - tux1968 7y ago
        How is that the least bit relevant? I'm not arguing about the quantity of female victors historically (which obviously is affected by their unfortunate exclusion) I'm talking about races today where women must compete for a Woman's-trophy because they are generally not able to compete with the male athletes. That is exactly the reason for having a Woman's trophy in the first place. Which is how this sub-discussion started. Even though black runners were excluded from early races, there was no need to create a special trophy for them. When the ugly practice of excluding them ended, they tended to dominate. My point is the very existence of a Woman's trophy is an admission that, generally speaking, they can not compete on equal footing with men. Obviously there are fun exceptions like in this story where a woman wins the overall race, and all credit to her for doing so.
luma 7y ago
I think it might be because most everyone here understands that human sexual dimorphism is a thing, and it's unrelated to personal politics. If you need evidence, check literally every single track and field record on the books. Show a counter example, and people here might be more willing to entertain your snark.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  You're literally commenting on a counter example.
  - luma 7y ago
    Read that again - I didn't say a single outcome in a single race, I said records.
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      You said, "show a counter example". You really need to work on your phrasing if you were referring to records.
      - luma 7y ago
        It's clear you're being intentionally intransigent here. If you're willing to have a discussion about the facts, as opposed to your inability to comprehend simple sentences, then I'm game. Otherwise, please take your axe and grind it elsewhere.
        EdwardDiego 7y ago
        My only axe is with people who make sweeping claims without evidence.
        burneraccount12 7y ago
        Says the person who, when confronted with objective evidence that defeats his argument, refuses to accept it. Male elites do not run every single ultra race out there, obviously. Why should they? A course record is not a world record, and there is not a single world record a woman holds over a man in running at any distance, from 100 meters to 100 miles. Your refusal to admit the obvious makes you seem like you're just trolling people in this thread.
ordinaryperson 7y ago
I just quoted the 100m and the 50K records but feel free to compare all distance records for men and women: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athle...
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  Seeing a fair few female names in the ultramarathon category. Again, keen on evidence for "women cannot physically compete".
  - ordinaryperson 7y ago
    Here's a list of ultras: https://ultrarunning.com/featured/ultrarunning-magazine-all-time-lists/ https://ultrarunning.com/featured/ultrarunning-magazine-all-... As others have stated, elite women can best nearly all hobby jogging men. But they can't compete with top ultra runners like Jim Walmsley or Killian Jornet. So if you define "competing" as "having a legit chance to win" then no, elite women cannot outrace elite men. But always cool and good to see a woman win overall, hope it helps publicize the sport more. The fact that it has people here on HN talking is a good sign.
  - luma 7y ago
    Are you looking under the women's table? Can you provide a _single_ point where a world running record is held by a woman? You're really sticking your neck out on this point and I'm curious if you actually have a counter example or are just stirring the pot for personal reasons. Look, I am all for empowering women and as far as personal politics goes, I think we're on the same page. However, nobody is doing anyone any favors by wishing away biological differences present in sapiens, and many other species too[1]. This is a stone fact of our biology, it's up to us what we do with it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#Record_holders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#Record_holders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edit_Bérces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edit_Bérces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frith_van_der_Merwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frith_van_der_Merwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olesya_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olesya_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Herron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Herron I'm wondering about your personal reasons also.

> Whether long or short races, women cannot physically compete with men. [Citation really seriously needed] Edit Haha, love the downvotes for asking for evidence for an unsubstantiated claim.

tux1968 7y ago

The fact that there is a separate trophy which only women compete for, is a pretty good indicator that its generally true. Why else would a female trophy exist?

EdwardDiego 7y ago
Historical preponderance of male competitors is an easy explanation off the top of my head. For an obvious example, Katherine Switzer, who entered the Boston Marathon in 1967 and got chased down for gasp being a woman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOGXvBAmTsY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOGXvBAmTsY
- tux1968 7y ago
  Organized races in America were predominantly white in the early days and yet when other ethnicities started to join (in small numbers at first) no special trophy was needed. They were able to compete immediately for the overall trophy just like all the other men. Historical exclusion from competition doesn't make sense as a reason for modern under performance.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    Did you watch the video I linked about how women were explicitly discouraged/banned from entering long-distance running? The now infamous image is from 1967.
    - tux1968 7y ago
      How is that the least bit relevant? I'm not arguing about the quantity of female victors historically (which obviously is affected by their unfortunate exclusion) I'm talking about races today where women must compete for a Woman's-trophy because they are generally not able to compete with the male athletes. That is exactly the reason for having a Woman's trophy in the first place. Which is how this sub-discussion started. Even though black runners were excluded from early races, there was no need to create a special trophy for them. When the ugly practice of excluding them ended, they tended to dominate. My point is the very existence of a Woman's trophy is an admission that, generally speaking, they can not compete on equal footing with men. Obviously there are fun exceptions like in this story where a woman wins the overall race, and all credit to her for doing so.

luma 7y ago

I think it might be because most everyone here understands that human sexual dimorphism is a thing, and it's unrelated to personal politics. If you need evidence, check literally every single track and field record on the books. Show a counter example, and people here might be more willing to entertain your snark.

EdwardDiego 7y ago
You're literally commenting on a counter example.
- luma 7y ago
  Read that again - I didn't say a single outcome in a single race, I said records.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    You said, "show a counter example". You really need to work on your phrasing if you were referring to records.
    - luma 7y ago
      It's clear you're being intentionally intransigent here. If you're willing to have a discussion about the facts, as opposed to your inability to comprehend simple sentences, then I'm game. Otherwise, please take your axe and grind it elsewhere.
      - EdwardDiego 7y ago
        My only axe is with people who make sweeping claims without evidence.
        burneraccount12 7y ago
        Says the person who, when confronted with objective evidence that defeats his argument, refuses to accept it. Male elites do not run every single ultra race out there, obviously. Why should they? A course record is not a world record, and there is not a single world record a woman holds over a man in running at any distance, from 100 meters to 100 miles. Your refusal to admit the obvious makes you seem like you're just trolling people in this thread.

ordinaryperson 7y ago

I just quoted the 100m and the 50K records but feel free to compare all distance records for men and women: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athle...

EdwardDiego 7y ago
Seeing a fair few female names in the ultramarathon category. Again, keen on evidence for "women cannot physically compete".
- ordinaryperson 7y ago
  Here's a list of ultras: https://ultrarunning.com/featured/ultrarunning-magazine-all-time-lists/ https://ultrarunning.com/featured/ultrarunning-magazine-all-... As others have stated, elite women can best nearly all hobby jogging men. But they can't compete with top ultra runners like Jim Walmsley or Killian Jornet. So if you define "competing" as "having a legit chance to win" then no, elite women cannot outrace elite men. But always cool and good to see a woman win overall, hope it helps publicize the sport more. The fact that it has people here on HN talking is a good sign.
- luma 7y ago
  Are you looking under the women's table? Can you provide a _single_ point where a world running record is held by a woman? You're really sticking your neck out on this point and I'm curious if you actually have a counter example or are just stirring the pot for personal reasons. Look, I am all for empowering women and as far as personal politics goes, I think we're on the same page. However, nobody is doing anyone any favors by wishing away biological differences present in sapiens, and many other species too[1]. This is a stone fact of our biology, it's up to us what we do with it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#Record_holders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon#Record_holders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edit_Bérces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edit_Bérces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frith_van_der_Merwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frith_van_der_Merwe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olesya_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olesya_Nurgalieva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Herron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_Herron I'm wondering about your personal reasons also.