5 ms·

The writing is a bit confusing so here's a TL;DR: Usually in these races, there are two trophies, one for the overall winner and one for the female winner. Thi

The writing is a bit confusing so here's a TL;DR: Usually in these races, there are two trophies, one for the overall winner and one for the female winner. This time, since a woman finished first overall, she got both trophies.

sabertoothed 7y ago
Thanks. What a terribly misleading headline then.
kaitai 7y ago
Yes. I was initially a bit confused, actually, as in cross-country skiing they often just have a men's category and a women's category, and then it's easy to award the trophies. (As far as I know there is no non-binary modification yet.)
- loxs 7y ago
  Because men will win them almost every time? Like "I identified non-binary for the duration of the race, don't be a bigot!"
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    This comment confuses me because the implication here is that people identify as nonbinary exclusively to win trophies in non-existent sports categories? Isn't that just lying?
    - loxs 7y ago
      Can you (or anyone) objectively prove that they are or are not non-binary? It's too easy to cheat and if the rewards are big enough, too many will.
      - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
        Presumably they'd have to live as a nonbinary person generally, which would come with all the social consequences of being 'out'. Also it may be possible that male-only categories are still rewarded greater than other categories (eg. womens tennis vs mens tennis and other controversies). If someone wants to cheat, there's easier ways to cheat (doping) than taking on a whole pile of societal judgements in every facet of one's life, constantly, and trying to push against it in affirmation of one's own identity. Including accusations of lying about it for the win. EDIT: Of course there's no way to objective prove a gender. We don't even have 'objective' ways to prove someone's gender even when they fall upon the binary. We have cis women who have been disqualified for having the wrong chromosomes even though they have qualifying secondary sex characteristics (which athletes have also been recorded needing to be subjected to invasive exposing of their bodies to verify the category).
satysin 7y ago
I know it is a small thing but hopefully they change this going forward. Having a 'special' female winner while assuming a male will be the 'real' winner is implicit/transparent sexism to me.
- kryogen1c 7y ago
  It's sexism by definition because it's making a choice based on gender, but that doesn't make it wrong. Men are more physically performant than women, so if there weren't two leagues then in the overall majority of sports women would just lose.
- eknkc 7y ago
  Well, they said no woman ever won this race so I guess it's a fair assumption that the first place will be a male. They probably added the female winner trophy to be more inclusive towards women even. The situation is kind of stupid but does not seem malicious to me, just happened to be like this.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    Of course not malicious, but not a little bit presumptuous. As you can see from other commenters here it's apparently not unexpected that a woman might win. The organizers if any, should have had a hunch this might happen, even if it didn't happen before. Well, there were good laughs to be had anyway!
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- dTal 7y ago
  Doesn't seem sexist to me, given that the reason this is a headline is because it has never happened before. Historically, the assumption that a man will win is completely grounded. I also note that the two awards are physically identical except for the text. What system would be better, here? A single award? That's just the same system as now, minus the female award - now women almost never take home a prize. Separate but equal "mens" and "womens" awards, labeled as such? Now you aren't recognizing the "overall" winner at all. Perhaps three awards - mens, womens, and outright? Might be a good idea for cases like this where the best man gets nothing, but for the majority of cases all you've done is hand another award to the man. Remember, this is a headline because it's an edge case. Edge cases are a poor guide for good policy.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
glyxbaer 7y ago
I find this a bit strange and maybe it's a cultural/US thing, but the races I have competed in (Germany) always had two trophies: overall male winner and overall female winner. Which would easily eliminate this issue. TIL that this is not the same everywhere.
- ultrarunner 7y ago
  As I said upthread, it's just a poor choice by a race director. The way you mentioned is how we do it too. They could have chosen to give trophies to the overall winners, to the last place finisher, to the 4 median finishers, or any other silly combination, but they chose what they did and Runner's World wrote an article about it.

sabertoothed 7y ago

Thanks. What a terribly misleading headline then.

kaitai 7y ago

Yes. I was initially a bit confused, actually, as in cross-country skiing they often just have a men's category and a women's category, and then it's easy to award the trophies. (As far as I know there is no non-binary modification yet.)

loxs 7y ago
Because men will win them almost every time? Like "I identified non-binary for the duration of the race, don't be a bigot!"
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  This comment confuses me because the implication here is that people identify as nonbinary exclusively to win trophies in non-existent sports categories? Isn't that just lying?
  - loxs 7y ago
    Can you (or anyone) objectively prove that they are or are not non-binary? It's too easy to cheat and if the rewards are big enough, too many will.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      Presumably they'd have to live as a nonbinary person generally, which would come with all the social consequences of being 'out'. Also it may be possible that male-only categories are still rewarded greater than other categories (eg. womens tennis vs mens tennis and other controversies). If someone wants to cheat, there's easier ways to cheat (doping) than taking on a whole pile of societal judgements in every facet of one's life, constantly, and trying to push against it in affirmation of one's own identity. Including accusations of lying about it for the win. EDIT: Of course there's no way to objective prove a gender. We don't even have 'objective' ways to prove someone's gender even when they fall upon the binary. We have cis women who have been disqualified for having the wrong chromosomes even though they have qualifying secondary sex characteristics (which athletes have also been recorded needing to be subjected to invasive exposing of their bodies to verify the category).

satysin 7y ago

I know it is a small thing but hopefully they change this going forward. Having a 'special' female winner while assuming a male will be the 'real' winner is implicit/transparent sexism to me.

kryogen1c 7y ago
It's sexism by definition because it's making a choice based on gender, but that doesn't make it wrong. Men are more physically performant than women, so if there weren't two leagues then in the overall majority of sports women would just lose.
eknkc 7y ago
Well, they said no woman ever won this race so I guess it's a fair assumption that the first place will be a male. They probably added the female winner trophy to be more inclusive towards women even. The situation is kind of stupid but does not seem malicious to me, just happened to be like this.
- jacobush 7y ago
  Of course not malicious, but not a little bit presumptuous. As you can see from other commenters here it's apparently not unexpected that a woman might win. The organizers if any, should have had a hunch this might happen, even if it didn't happen before. Well, there were good laughs to be had anyway!
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
dTal 7y ago
Doesn't seem sexist to me, given that the reason this is a headline is because it has never happened before. Historically, the assumption that a man will win is completely grounded. I also note that the two awards are physically identical except for the text. What system would be better, here? A single award? That's just the same system as now, minus the female award - now women almost never take home a prize. Separate but equal "mens" and "womens" awards, labeled as such? Now you aren't recognizing the "overall" winner at all. Perhaps three awards - mens, womens, and outright? Might be a good idea for cases like this where the best man gets nothing, but for the majority of cases all you've done is hand another award to the man. Remember, this is a headline because it's an edge case. Edge cases are a poor guide for good policy.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

glyxbaer 7y ago

I find this a bit strange and maybe it's a cultural/US thing, but the races I have competed in (Germany) always had two trophies: overall male winner and overall female winner. Which would easily eliminate this issue. TIL that this is not the same everywhere.

ultrarunner 7y ago
As I said upthread, it's just a poor choice by a race director. The way you mentioned is how we do it too. They could have chosen to give trophies to the overall winners, to the last place finisher, to the 4 median finishers, or any other silly combination, but they chose what they did and Runner's World wrote an article about it.