6 ms·

The end of capitalism has begun (2015)

29 points by ranit 7y ago

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Perhaps worth noting that the author is very left-wing and used to be a member of a Troskyst group. The end of capitalism is a matter of ideology for the author.
- vixen99 7y ago
  Love to know the thought processes of the folk who downvoted this undeniably factual observation. As Wikipedia points out "In another New Statesman article published the following year he (Mason) described himself as an "actual Marxist".
  - klez 7y ago
    Hi, I'm the downvoter. When I downvoted the post, the phrase "The end of capitalism is a matter of ideology for the author" wasn't there, or I just missed it entirely (in which case, my bad), so it looked to me like a simple ad-hominem with no rhyme or reason. Now I see what the message meant, so I retracted the downvote. Next time I'll make sure to ask for clarification before hitting the down arrow. As an aside, Mason can say whatever he wants, but every time I read him I get the distinct impression that while he may have some left-tinted idea, an a whole I wouldn't define him as "very left-wing". He looks more like a proponent of some sort of "humane capitalism". > As Wikipedia points out "In another New Statesman article published the following year he (Mason) described himself as an "actual Marxist". Not that it matters much, but I can't find it on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Mason_(author) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Mason_(author) (I also checked if someone removed it today, but there's nothing in the article's history that removed that phrase).
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      It's Paul Mason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mason_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mason_(journalist) I did add the second sentence later, but I think that the first is clear enough in making the point that Mr Mason's take on capitalism is ideological.
      - klez 7y ago
        > It's Paul Mason Ok, it's now clear I need some coffee. Sorry for all this mess.
Arbalest 7y ago
But will anyone actually currently alive actually see it? If the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid, how are we supposed to be able to predict when this is going to happen? Also, surely change is inevitable, but who is to say it's going to become as the article says. Reads too much like a prophecy for my liking.
- abhiyerra 7y ago
  Read an article recently here on Hacker News that with capitalism being based off the notion of growth, and many places experiencing a stall in population growth there essentially won’t be new consumers for capitalism to work since there won’t be new growth and might actually be diminishing growth. Also wonder if that is why all those companies signed that letter today saying that shareholder value isn’t paramount. Maybe it is acknowledged that growth can’t happen forever because it can’t.
  - dnautics 7y ago
    Is capitalism based off of the notion of growth? Surely, contemporary capitalism is, as enforced by inflation and an interest-driven central banking regime; but there have been other capitalist eras (e.g. much of 19th century Sweden) where growth was not an inherent part of capitalism
  - zeristor 7y ago
    This sounds like an invitation to AI consumers, Douglas Adams talked about clones to buy things culminating in the shoe event horizon. However connect up some AI’s with bitcoin and a penchant for personalising their avatar funded by web extortion and you’ve got something which is far more buzzword compliant.
drongoking 7y ago
This article is from 2015. Is the beginning of the ending of capitalism done beginning?
- sleepysysadmin 7y ago
  The opposite actually; we're seeing the downfall of socialism. Syriza was defeated by a capitalist right-wing group. Just sticking to that area of the world: Turkey, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Germany, and Poland is conservative or right wing. Russia is controlled by a super majority of anti-communists. Russia is being falsely portrayed as big bad in the media because they are anti-commie; because of their recent experience with communism. Socialism/communism is being thrown out the door.
  - viklove 7y ago
    Socialism/communism are not the opposite of capitalism, and this is the strawman that the US government has been using for decades to fleece their own citizens.
    - sleepysysadmin 7y ago
      I would love you to explain it to me.
phs318u 7y ago
> It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up. It bears repeating that this is only possible because borderless corporations using free-moving capital can arbitrage border-locked labour - people for whom meaningful freedom of movement (including the freedom to work) is not possible. EDITED to correct spelling.
BerislavLopac 7y ago
One problem with all of those ideas about "the end of capitalism" is that they are missing the core point of capitalism itself, which is having money (i.e. financial assets, i.e. the "capital") as a store of value. The article uses the comparison with the end of feudalism, but feudalism only ended once one form of value store -- the land -- was replaced by another -- the capital. As long as some form of society exists, there will be a need for a way to store and transfer value.
matthewfelgate 7y ago
Let me guess another Paul Mason article? That guy is absolutely obsessed with Capitalism like it abused him as a child.

29 points by ranit 7y ago

Perhaps worth noting that the author is very left-wing and used to be a member of a Troskyst group. The end of capitalism is a matter of ideology for the author.

vixen99 7y ago
Love to know the thought processes of the folk who downvoted this undeniably factual observation. As Wikipedia points out "In another New Statesman article published the following year he (Mason) described himself as an "actual Marxist".
- klez 7y ago
  Hi, I'm the downvoter. When I downvoted the post, the phrase "The end of capitalism is a matter of ideology for the author" wasn't there, or I just missed it entirely (in which case, my bad), so it looked to me like a simple ad-hominem with no rhyme or reason. Now I see what the message meant, so I retracted the downvote. Next time I'll make sure to ask for clarification before hitting the down arrow. As an aside, Mason can say whatever he wants, but every time I read him I get the distinct impression that while he may have some left-tinted idea, an a whole I wouldn't define him as "very left-wing". He looks more like a proponent of some sort of "humane capitalism". > As Wikipedia points out "In another New Statesman article published the following year he (Mason) described himself as an "actual Marxist". Not that it matters much, but I can't find it on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Mason_(author) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Mason_(author) (I also checked if someone removed it today, but there's nothing in the article's history that removed that phrase).
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    It's Paul Mason: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mason_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Mason_(journalist) I did add the second sentence later, but I think that the first is clear enough in making the point that Mr Mason's take on capitalism is ideological.
    - klez 7y ago
      > It's Paul Mason Ok, it's now clear I need some coffee. Sorry for all this mess.

Arbalest 7y ago

But will anyone actually currently alive actually see it? If the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid, how are we supposed to be able to predict when this is going to happen? Also, surely change is inevitable, but who is to say it's going to become as the article says. Reads too much like a prophecy for my liking.

abhiyerra 7y ago
Read an article recently here on Hacker News that with capitalism being based off the notion of growth, and many places experiencing a stall in population growth there essentially won’t be new consumers for capitalism to work since there won’t be new growth and might actually be diminishing growth. Also wonder if that is why all those companies signed that letter today saying that shareholder value isn’t paramount. Maybe it is acknowledged that growth can’t happen forever because it can’t.
- dnautics 7y ago
  Is capitalism based off of the notion of growth? Surely, contemporary capitalism is, as enforced by inflation and an interest-driven central banking regime; but there have been other capitalist eras (e.g. much of 19th century Sweden) where growth was not an inherent part of capitalism
- zeristor 7y ago
  This sounds like an invitation to AI consumers, Douglas Adams talked about clones to buy things culminating in the shoe event horizon. However connect up some AI’s with bitcoin and a penchant for personalising their avatar funded by web extortion and you’ve got something which is far more buzzword compliant.

drongoking 7y ago

This article is from 2015. Is the beginning of the ending of capitalism done beginning?

sleepysysadmin 7y ago
The opposite actually; we're seeing the downfall of socialism. Syriza was defeated by a capitalist right-wing group. Just sticking to that area of the world: Turkey, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Germany, and Poland is conservative or right wing. Russia is controlled by a super majority of anti-communists. Russia is being falsely portrayed as big bad in the media because they are anti-commie; because of their recent experience with communism. Socialism/communism is being thrown out the door.
- viklove 7y ago
  Socialism/communism are not the opposite of capitalism, and this is the strawman that the US government has been using for decades to fleece their own citizens.
  - sleepysysadmin 7y ago
    I would love you to explain it to me.

phs318u 7y ago

> It means driving the wages, social wages and living standards in the west down for decades until they meet those of the middle class in China and India on the way up. It bears repeating that this is only possible because borderless corporations using free-moving capital can arbitrage border-locked labour - people for whom meaningful freedom of movement (including the freedom to work) is not possible. EDITED to correct spelling.

BerislavLopac 7y ago

One problem with all of those ideas about "the end of capitalism" is that they are missing the core point of capitalism itself, which is having money (i.e. financial assets, i.e. the "capital") as a store of value. The article uses the comparison with the end of feudalism, but feudalism only ended once one form of value store -- the land -- was replaced by another -- the capital. As long as some form of society exists, there will be a need for a way to store and transfer value.

matthewfelgate 7y ago

Let me guess another Paul Mason article? That guy is absolutely obsessed with Capitalism like it abused him as a child.