4 ms·

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no i

by beej71 16y ago

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must have been to live with.

jayzee 16y ago
Send his note to your friends and friends of friends. Disseminate it widely. It will send the message that people care. Somebody you know may be dealing with something similar.
- Anothrowaway 16y ago
  Someone going through the same thing and then witnessing the end result of it on this man isn't exactly positive reinforcement
  - phuff 16y ago
    The sad part is that there are people who can keep confidences. There are counselors who would keep his confidence. There are friends who would keep his confidence. I'm convinced there's probably even a girl out there who could love him enough for who he was to help him understand that even though the darkness was present her love was for him and was willing to deal with it's presence. If anything, this letter, and any suicide, can have the positive influence on the rest of us, encouraging us to reach out to those around us who are pained or troubled in anyway to just kind of try and lift their burdens for a moment. Sorry if that sounds unrealistic, but there's been two suicides in my neighborhood in the last 6 months, and in both cases I think if there'd been more public discussion of options, more open discussion in society about feeling like there's no way out and what you can do when you feel that way, if there had been people who had been willing to tell people, "Hey, I know you've got issues, but I'm willing to be your friend anyway..." that in some way their lives perhaps could have been altered.
    - khafra 16y ago
      This whole thing has been making me think: It'd be expensive as hell and not covered by medical insurance, and it sounds crazy, but I wonder if talking to a lawyer would've helped. A study I can no longer locate found that talking to any intelligent person who shows an interest is comparable to a professional therapist; and lawyers generally take the privacy of their clients very seriously.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - micks56 16y ago
        The Model Rules of Professional Conduct (with each state adopting their own, perhaps different rules) allow a lawyer to disclose confidential client information to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm. MRPC 1.6(b)(1). So the lawyer may have kept his confidence, but may have had the option to disclose. Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.
        spindritf 16y ago
        > Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for. A catholic priest may not reveal anything he learned during the confession, no exceptions. That's the only "profession" I know with such a strong promise of confidentiality. "Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason." http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM
mcantor 16y ago
Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. Not because it's "predestined" or any of that sort of nonsense, but because there's simply nothing that will work. It doesn't matter how smart, strong or motivated you are; you'll never stop an avalanche with a shovel.
Entlin 16y ago
We have to make steps towards 100% trustable counsellors to talk to. Certification programs, regular auditions. Have them live together in a remote place with the rule that talking about patients means expulsion. I'm just spitballing here, but I'm sure there is some way to have guaranteed trustable people to talk to. And then make sure that people with trust issues find them. This would surely save many lifes. Why aren't we doing this?
Mz 16y ago
Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? (Assuming that wasn't rhetorical): By treating people with real respect and gentleness. You never know whom you are dealing with or how your behavior will impact them. I was molested and raped as a child, something I'm pretty open about. For me, a big deal moment was after the birth of my second child when the doctor took off his gown and, apparently without really thinking about it, gently wiped some of the blood off of me. I have no idea what his name was. The birth of my second child happened pretty fast, so I interacted with this man for probably 15 minutes or less. I had never known a man to be that gentle or considerate before. I have no reason to think he ever had any idea how big of a deal that one action was to me. It made a big psychological and emotional impact and I still remember it with some clarity -- how startled I was and how strange and wondrous it seemed -- more than 21 years later (even in spite of the 9 or 10 years I was doped to the gills on prescription and non-prescription medication for a serious medical crisis, which has left me with "swiss cheese for brains"). It occupied my mind for some weeks afterwards, if not longer. Peace.

by beej71 16y ago

jayzee 16y ago

Send his note to your friends and friends of friends. Disseminate it widely. It will send the message that people care. Somebody you know may be dealing with something similar.

Anothrowaway 16y ago
Someone going through the same thing and then witnessing the end result of it on this man isn't exactly positive reinforcement
- phuff 16y ago
  The sad part is that there are people who can keep confidences. There are counselors who would keep his confidence. There are friends who would keep his confidence. I'm convinced there's probably even a girl out there who could love him enough for who he was to help him understand that even though the darkness was present her love was for him and was willing to deal with it's presence. If anything, this letter, and any suicide, can have the positive influence on the rest of us, encouraging us to reach out to those around us who are pained or troubled in anyway to just kind of try and lift their burdens for a moment. Sorry if that sounds unrealistic, but there's been two suicides in my neighborhood in the last 6 months, and in both cases I think if there'd been more public discussion of options, more open discussion in society about feeling like there's no way out and what you can do when you feel that way, if there had been people who had been willing to tell people, "Hey, I know you've got issues, but I'm willing to be your friend anyway..." that in some way their lives perhaps could have been altered.
  - khafra 16y ago
    This whole thing has been making me think: It'd be expensive as hell and not covered by medical insurance, and it sounds crazy, but I wonder if talking to a lawyer would've helped. A study I can no longer locate found that talking to any intelligent person who shows an interest is comparable to a professional therapist; and lawyers generally take the privacy of their clients very seriously.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
    - micks56 16y ago
      The Model Rules of Professional Conduct (with each state adopting their own, perhaps different rules) allow a lawyer to disclose confidential client information to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm. MRPC 1.6(b)(1). So the lawyer may have kept his confidence, but may have had the option to disclose. Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for.
      - spindritf 16y ago
        > Unfortunately, not the steel trap that Bill was looking for. A catholic priest may not reveal anything he learned during the confession, no exceptions. That's the only "profession" I know with such a strong promise of confidentiality. "Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason." http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM

mcantor 16y ago

Sometimes there is just nothing you can do. Not because it's "predestined" or any of that sort of nonsense, but because there's simply nothing that will work. It doesn't matter how smart, strong or motivated you are; you'll never stop an avalanche with a shovel.

Entlin 16y ago

We have to make steps towards 100% trustable counsellors to talk to. Certification programs, regular auditions. Have them live together in a remote place with the rule that talking about patients means expulsion. I'm just spitballing here, but I'm sure there is some way to have guaranteed trustable people to talk to. And then make sure that people with trust issues find them. This would surely save many lifes. Why aren't we doing this?

Mz 16y ago

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? (Assuming that wasn't rhetorical): By treating people with real respect and gentleness. You never know whom you are dealing with or how your behavior will impact them. I was molested and raped as a child, something I'm pretty open about. For me, a big deal moment was after the birth of my second child when the doctor took off his gown and, apparently without really thinking about it, gently wiped some of the blood off of me. I have no idea what his name was. The birth of my second child happened pretty fast, so I interacted with this man for probably 15 minutes or less. I had never known a man to be that gentle or considerate before. I have no reason to think he ever had any idea how big of a deal that one action was to me. It made a big psychological and emotional impact and I still remember it with some clarity -- how startled I was and how strange and wondrous it seemed -- more than 21 years later (even in spite of the 9 or 10 years I was doped to the gills on prescription and non-prescription medication for a serious medical crisis, which has left me with "swiss cheese for brains"). It occupied my mind for some weeks afterwards, if not longer. Peace.