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MCAS has no more potential for catastrophic consequences than the basic stab trim system or autopilot control on a 737-200 in 1967. Any of those systems can mal

MCAS has no more potential for catastrophic consequences than the basic stab trim system or autopilot control on a 737-200 in 1967. Any of those systems can malfunction and the results of an IMPROPERLY handled malfunction would be the same. Boeing's not going to add "If the failure is determined to be MCAS, then blah, blah, blah........ to the Runaway Stabilizer procedures because it doesn't matter. The symptoms and solution of some kind of MCAS failure are basically the same as any other stab related malfunction. A pilot wouldn't need to know why his aircraft was pitching down uncommanded - just that it is and there are long established, proven procedures that he's supposed to follow. Runaway stabilizer procedures in the 737 have remained pretty much unchanged since its first flight. The same can be said for pretty much any Boeing airliner. 1 - Turn off the autopilot to see if it's causing the problem. 2 - Oppose the trim manually with the yoke. If that stops it, you're done. 3 - If that doesn't work, then you turn off the stab trim cutout switches. If MCAS is getting some kind of erroneous AOA signal and inputting an unwanted nose down pitch, guess what? Those procedures will stop it. If pilots at airline X get to step 2 and think they're good and MCAS starts another input after it's initial 10 second trim, then they go to step 3. They had the long forgotten throttles locked in the forward position, driving the aircraft to and past VMO. They needed to SLOW DOWN - just like anyone else trying to deal with a runaway stab situation and requirements to use the manual trim wheels. That was the "tool" to which they need to resort - flying the aircraft. Yoke, throttles, pitch, power, CRM... basics. Turning a failed system back on was not the "only other tool". It’s sad to see people with no understanding of aviation or engineering, talk about this issue and think it’s understandable that a fully trained 737 crew of a national airline can ignore their airspeed during this event for 6 minutes. There's no excuse. None. If you’re flying straight and level, trimmed for current speed in a 737 (or any transport category jet) with the autopilot off and you pull the power to idle and don’t touch the yoke, you’ll descend at your current speed. The accident aircraft trim was changing over the course of the event due to MCAS and pilot inputs.For some of the event, the aircraft was trimmed very nose down and therefore most likely trimmed for a higher speed. Already near or above VMO, if the pilots pulled the power to idle in that trim condition, they would have needed to pull back on the yoke in order to slow down. They could have slowed if they had the speed and thrust levers in their cross-check. Idle, nose up yoke input, speed brakes would have done the trick. Unfortunately the thrust levers never moved until it was too late. Trim runs when unwanted, there are two cutoff switches, easily accessible, and trim isn't subtle or unseen in the 737. It's very obvious. It's noisy, it's very visual, and it's tactile. There is NO doubt that the trim is moving, and if that's happening without the autopilot engaged and the pilot isn't trimming, there can only be one possibility, and one solution. Allowing it to happen repeatedly, no excuse. Cutting it off, then reversing that action to enable trim again, also inexcusable. Accelerating to 600+ KIAS, beyond excusable, very controllable, entirely preventable. Two similar incidents in third-world countries, with at least one FO at a ridiculously low experience level, flying the aircraft. Boeing has been bowing and cowing lately, but not because it's the right thing to do; it's political and it's spin. Own it, eat it, apply a fix, stop the bleeding...but these mishaps didn't need to happen, and Boeing is very well aware that promoting the truth, that both incidents were fixable and flyable save for pilots that didn't do their job, will be a hard sell in the mania of ignorance swirling in the public eye presently. Don't mistake that political "mia culpa" for the truth; it's telling the world what it wants to hear long enough to get the ball rolling again and move on. As an actual professional with a brain and any semblance of training and experience, you should know better. There's a lot that can go wrong in an aircraft. In this case, the means to control it are readily available and known. This mode of malfunction will soon be removed from possibility, but regardless, it comes down to whether one is a pilot, or a passenger in the cockpit.

chmaynard 7y ago
Interesting point of view, but expressed in a rather arrogant and one-sided manner. In the interests of full disclosure, what are your qualifications and background? Have you ever been employed by Boeing or the FAA?
- HeyYouWhoMe 7y ago
  I am typed in the 737, I fly the Max. Currently on the 739ER. Look it may sound arrogant, but the truth is 300+ people are dead and it’s definitely not Boeing’s fault. They had the procedures readily available. They’ve been around since 1967. It is once again, another incident where two foreign crews failed way too many basics.
  - HeyYouWhoMe 7y ago
    Being downvoted? Why? Truth hurts? Yes, I know. Being lied to by the media sucks, but that’s what happens when you allow a company who thrives off controversy to read investigation papers that are made public. They can easily trick the public because many think they can’t read the reports. It’s not too hard to understand. Media pushed Boeing into a corner to accept responsibility or face backlash on the company. If you don’t believe me, then why did the media say the pilots followed procedures, when they really didn’t. What the preliminary report, released by the investigators, says is that the crews turned the system back on, although the procedures state to not do that, literally. It says “leave cut out for remainder of flight”. Not “re engage if you want to” The crews re engaged the system to enable trim again, because the downward pitch had created such forces that were too strong for them to fight. What would have helped tremendously is pulling throttles to idle. Pulling back on the yoke, and applying speed brakes. They didn’t though, they left throttles at full, and allowed that for the entire flight. Dealt with control issues with throttles at full. Not only that, both overspeed warnings impacted for over 3 minutes. Speed was still never discussed, although they had every indication that they needed to slow down. As for the argument people bring to my attention, after I say this, is usually “well why is Boeing taking responsibility then?” Well because they already tried telling the truth, that the planes were an easy save for pilots who did not do their job. That failed horribly. So many heads, exploded. It was clear to Boeing that they needed to accept responsibility or forever be known by whatever the media makes them out to be. The media seems to love the part where “Boeing hid MCAS” But they didn’t. Although Boeing technically could hide MCAS, and it wouldn’t mean anything. Ever since the next generation, any uncommanded nose pitch down takes you to runaway stab procedure. If you had two crews, who dealt with the same issue, and one knew of MCAS, and one didn’t. They should both live, because they’ll follow the same procedure regardless. I say “should” however because it’s clear Airlines just aren’t training their pilots like they use to. MCAS produces the same failures as the stab trim, everything about it, is alike. But like I said, Boeing didn’t hide anything. They told us the change in values the system made. That’s all we need to know, so we don’t try to correct it. The only part they left out, is the name for it. Which doesn’t mean anything. The Brazilian authority has MCAS listed on paper, marked as “B” training A lot of lies spewed by the media. You can tell they’re running with this, just look how they report about nonsense, to do with Boeing. They jumped to a Boeing 737 skidding off the runway in Jacksonville, they thought they struck gold again, but they didn’t. It was weather related, and pilot error. They jumped to a story about the wheels popping on landing for a 787, lol. They run to anything that has “Boeing” because people are eating it up right now. It’s daily issues in aviation. It just happened at the right moment, when they had nothing else to spark controversy. They surely ignored the A320 that had 3 AOA failures in 2008, it was actually 2 failures. Those 2 rejected the 3rd. That plane crashed and killed everyone. Was airbus at fault? No. Because nobody makes a plane purely driven on a sensor. Pilot error because they forgot the basics. Just like they have in this case. Don’t forget, a journalist is hired based off them knowing how to start some major drama, and also because they typed the most words in a minute. They know nothing about engineering, they know nothing about aviation. And anyone who goes to them claiming they know these subjects. Can easily fool them with some nonsense and for their 15 mins of fame. Stay woke

chmaynard 7y ago

Interesting point of view, but expressed in a rather arrogant and one-sided manner. In the interests of full disclosure, what are your qualifications and background? Have you ever been employed by Boeing or the FAA?

HeyYouWhoMe 7y ago
I am typed in the 737, I fly the Max. Currently on the 739ER. Look it may sound arrogant, but the truth is 300+ people are dead and it’s definitely not Boeing’s fault. They had the procedures readily available. They’ve been around since 1967. It is once again, another incident where two foreign crews failed way too many basics.
- HeyYouWhoMe 7y ago
  Being downvoted? Why? Truth hurts? Yes, I know. Being lied to by the media sucks, but that’s what happens when you allow a company who thrives off controversy to read investigation papers that are made public. They can easily trick the public because many think they can’t read the reports. It’s not too hard to understand. Media pushed Boeing into a corner to accept responsibility or face backlash on the company. If you don’t believe me, then why did the media say the pilots followed procedures, when they really didn’t. What the preliminary report, released by the investigators, says is that the crews turned the system back on, although the procedures state to not do that, literally. It says “leave cut out for remainder of flight”. Not “re engage if you want to” The crews re engaged the system to enable trim again, because the downward pitch had created such forces that were too strong for them to fight. What would have helped tremendously is pulling throttles to idle. Pulling back on the yoke, and applying speed brakes. They didn’t though, they left throttles at full, and allowed that for the entire flight. Dealt with control issues with throttles at full. Not only that, both overspeed warnings impacted for over 3 minutes. Speed was still never discussed, although they had every indication that they needed to slow down. As for the argument people bring to my attention, after I say this, is usually “well why is Boeing taking responsibility then?” Well because they already tried telling the truth, that the planes were an easy save for pilots who did not do their job. That failed horribly. So many heads, exploded. It was clear to Boeing that they needed to accept responsibility or forever be known by whatever the media makes them out to be. The media seems to love the part where “Boeing hid MCAS” But they didn’t. Although Boeing technically could hide MCAS, and it wouldn’t mean anything. Ever since the next generation, any uncommanded nose pitch down takes you to runaway stab procedure. If you had two crews, who dealt with the same issue, and one knew of MCAS, and one didn’t. They should both live, because they’ll follow the same procedure regardless. I say “should” however because it’s clear Airlines just aren’t training their pilots like they use to. MCAS produces the same failures as the stab trim, everything about it, is alike. But like I said, Boeing didn’t hide anything. They told us the change in values the system made. That’s all we need to know, so we don’t try to correct it. The only part they left out, is the name for it. Which doesn’t mean anything. The Brazilian authority has MCAS listed on paper, marked as “B” training A lot of lies spewed by the media. You can tell they’re running with this, just look how they report about nonsense, to do with Boeing. They jumped to a Boeing 737 skidding off the runway in Jacksonville, they thought they struck gold again, but they didn’t. It was weather related, and pilot error. They jumped to a story about the wheels popping on landing for a 787, lol. They run to anything that has “Boeing” because people are eating it up right now. It’s daily issues in aviation. It just happened at the right moment, when they had nothing else to spark controversy. They surely ignored the A320 that had 3 AOA failures in 2008, it was actually 2 failures. Those 2 rejected the 3rd. That plane crashed and killed everyone. Was airbus at fault? No. Because nobody makes a plane purely driven on a sensor. Pilot error because they forgot the basics. Just like they have in this case. Don’t forget, a journalist is hired based off them knowing how to start some major drama, and also because they typed the most words in a minute. They know nothing about engineering, they know nothing about aviation. And anyone who goes to them claiming they know these subjects. Can easily fool them with some nonsense and for their 15 mins of fame. Stay woke