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Or artisanal products like Mast Brothers' are actually Veblen goods (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good), w

Or artisanal products like Mast Brothers' are actually Veblen goods (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good), where demand for the product is driven by the high price because it lets its buyers conspicuously signal that they're better off than everyone else. Poor people can't afford $12 chocolate bars, so for a person who regularly buys $12 chocolate bars, part of the value to them is the opportunity to demonstrate how not-poor they are. All the markers of authenticity are just there to let the buyer convince themselves that they're doing something loftier than that.

Animats 7y ago
"Artisanal products" Right. Getting really tired of that. Overpriced bread. Oh, and because wide bread is now "artisanal", long-slot toasters have acquired luxury pricing and are more expensive than four-slot toasters. Even though they have identical heating elements.
- pfranz 7y ago
  It's an evolution. In the 50s white bread was considered modern, sanitary, more shelf stable, and futuristic. Now rustic and artisanal bread is considered nutritious with higher quality ingredients because we have fewer worries about quality and we're not giving up many of those other traits. Soon enough, that will be mass produced and there will be some other signal of higher quality or desirable trait that requires us to buy newer toasters. I still think white bread makes a better grilled cheese, pb&j, and brioche makes superior french toast. Those are all terrible on multi grain bread, which has its own uses.
  - Animats 7y ago
    Here's how "artisanal bread" is made now.[1] Conveyors, robots, stainless steel. No people. "When you want to bake as much bread as possible, you need robotic assistance. You have to get out of the way. If you have 12 or 15 oven decks, you can't physically load it fast enough." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qm_iHgFsPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qm_iHgFsPw
- itronitron 7y ago
  I hope this doesn't break you >> https://www.heirloomfire.com/ https://www.heirloomfire.com/
  - krysp 7y ago
    Quite honestly thought that video was a joke until the final cut
  - StudentStuff 7y ago
    Lets go LARP in the forest for our wedding? Sounds expensive
  - jnellis 7y ago
    In twain! I was sure this was that artisanal firewood bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBb9O-aW4zI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBb9O-aW4zI
  - Animats 7y ago
    Instagram photos not included.
lawnchair_larry 7y ago
I hear this argument about Apple products constantly, and have a knee-jerk reaction to debunk it as the actual reason, when it’s more likely motivated by preference. I just can’t imagine anyone even thinking that holding expensive chocolate is going to signal their status, and can’t imagine that anyone is so insecure that they would even feel a need to. A lot of people buy overpriced items because they actually believe they are higher quality (whether true or not, like with wine). Yet, jewelry and expensive watches exist seemingly only for that purpose, so I have to call my own assumptions about others behavior into question on this.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  But all of these examples require you to speculate about the motives of other people. Apple products are qualitatively different from its competitors products. Whether that makes them better is a personal preference. The same can absolutely be said about wine, and expensive watches. Watches can be used to signal status, or satisfy some aesthetic tastes, but they are also some of the most beautiful examples of high-precision mechanical engineering you can find. If I was filthy rich I’d absolutely by a nice watch with an exposed tourbillon, there’s no such thing as a cheap version of that.
- bsder 7y ago
  > I just can’t imagine anyone even thinking that holding expensive chocolate is going to signal their status Really? You can't imagine some hipsters having an "all artisanal" food gathering? Or a restaurant serving "all artisanal" dessert? Some people do things because they are genuine. Far more people do things because they are a fad. Far more do things because it's profitable.
  - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
    I can easily imagine them doing that, but I have trouble with the assertion that their reason for doing so is to signal their high status. The business argument doesn’t apply, I’m talking about the consumer side. Of course a business would sell something if it’s profitable, regardless of why.

Animats 7y ago

"Artisanal products" Right. Getting really tired of that. Overpriced bread. Oh, and because wide bread is now "artisanal", long-slot toasters have acquired luxury pricing and are more expensive than four-slot toasters. Even though they have identical heating elements.

pfranz 7y ago
It's an evolution. In the 50s white bread was considered modern, sanitary, more shelf stable, and futuristic. Now rustic and artisanal bread is considered nutritious with higher quality ingredients because we have fewer worries about quality and we're not giving up many of those other traits. Soon enough, that will be mass produced and there will be some other signal of higher quality or desirable trait that requires us to buy newer toasters. I still think white bread makes a better grilled cheese, pb&j, and brioche makes superior french toast. Those are all terrible on multi grain bread, which has its own uses.
- Animats 7y ago
  Here's how "artisanal bread" is made now.[1] Conveyors, robots, stainless steel. No people. "When you want to bake as much bread as possible, you need robotic assistance. You have to get out of the way. If you have 12 or 15 oven decks, you can't physically load it fast enough." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qm_iHgFsPw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qm_iHgFsPw
itronitron 7y ago
I hope this doesn't break you >> https://www.heirloomfire.com/ https://www.heirloomfire.com/
- krysp 7y ago
  Quite honestly thought that video was a joke until the final cut
- StudentStuff 7y ago
  Lets go LARP in the forest for our wedding? Sounds expensive
- jnellis 7y ago
  In twain! I was sure this was that artisanal firewood bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBb9O-aW4zI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBb9O-aW4zI
- Animats 7y ago
  Instagram photos not included.

lawnchair_larry 7y ago

I hear this argument about Apple products constantly, and have a knee-jerk reaction to debunk it as the actual reason, when it’s more likely motivated by preference. I just can’t imagine anyone even thinking that holding expensive chocolate is going to signal their status, and can’t imagine that anyone is so insecure that they would even feel a need to. A lot of people buy overpriced items because they actually believe they are higher quality (whether true or not, like with wine). Yet, jewelry and expensive watches exist seemingly only for that purpose, so I have to call my own assumptions about others behavior into question on this.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
But all of these examples require you to speculate about the motives of other people. Apple products are qualitatively different from its competitors products. Whether that makes them better is a personal preference. The same can absolutely be said about wine, and expensive watches. Watches can be used to signal status, or satisfy some aesthetic tastes, but they are also some of the most beautiful examples of high-precision mechanical engineering you can find. If I was filthy rich I’d absolutely by a nice watch with an exposed tourbillon, there’s no such thing as a cheap version of that.
bsder 7y ago
> I just can’t imagine anyone even thinking that holding expensive chocolate is going to signal their status Really? You can't imagine some hipsters having an "all artisanal" food gathering? Or a restaurant serving "all artisanal" dessert? Some people do things because they are genuine. Far more people do things because they are a fad. Far more do things because it's profitable.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago
  I can easily imagine them doing that, but I have trouble with the assertion that their reason for doing so is to signal their high status. The business argument doesn’t apply, I’m talking about the consumer side. Of course a business would sell something if it’s profitable, regardless of why.