15 ms·

RIP Bill Zeller

370 points by joshfraser 16y ago

atomical 16y ago
Wow. That was intense. Not expecting to read such a well thought out note.
BigZaphod 16y ago
A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for awhile. Such a shame.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  I'm still crying. I might be tomorrow.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- davidhollander 16y ago
  From reading the letter you can tell he was suffering extremely from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder throughout much of his life. I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war If you want to do something other than sit around feeling sad for a while, help address one of the above problems and prevent the situation from happening again. [further reading] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3850302.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/artic... >Ecstasy is the key to treating PTSD At last the incurably traumatised may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And controversially, the key to taming their demons is the ‘killer’ drug Ecstasy http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/ http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/ >For-profit pharmaceutical companies are not interested in developing MDMA into a medicine, because the patent for MDMA has expired. Companies cannot profit off of MDMA because it is only administered a limited number of times, unlike most medications for mental illnesses that are taken on a daily basis. Consequently MAPS is the only organization funding clinical trials of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in the world http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/ >1 in 8 returning soldiers suffers from PTSD But less than half with problems seek help, report finds
  - alexgartrell 16y ago
    This is a very serious thing, and I don't intend to start any kind of back-and-forth here and further distract from the real issues here. That said, standing on a political soap box about drug laws and war when Mr. Zeller's primary problem was obviously having been molested is ridiculous. Yes, it's possible that ecstasy in a clinical setting may have helped him, but he was let down in a lot more ways than an inability to get that particular treatment (as he says in the note, he wasn't even seeking treatment). It's disrespectful to pin this political issue to a man's final note to the world. Even if this was an issue Mr. Zeller felt strongly about, he obviously didn't mean to be some kind of martyr for it. edited to add: I don't disagree with your point, I just think your timing is awful.
    - davidhollander 16y ago
      I respect your disagreement. I see how grouping abuse with other forms of post-traumatic stress could be viewed insensitive to the personal suffering of Mr. Zeller. However, from a psychological perspective, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in all forms is associated with the recurring visions, nightmares, avoidance of treatment, and extreme cumulative pain he refers to. I justify and stand by the timing of my comment using the principle of harm reduction. Whenever painful incidents occur that challenge us very deeply psychologically, the world would be a better place if we all stopped and thought about how we contribute to that pattern of suffering... rather than brushing it under the cognitive rug to "think about later". Because usually we never will.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war A) You're going to have to do better than The Times, MSNBC, and a pro-psychedelic-legalization think tank to say MDMA is the most effective treatment. I'm not closed-minded to the idea that psychedelic drugs have positive psychiatric applications or that they should be legalized, but there's a lot of literature about treatments overall, and you've offered no comparative studies measuring the difference between MDMA and, for instance, cognitive behavioral therapy. B) The stereotypical PTSD case is a returning war veteran. If you hadn't noticed, though, wars also tend to kill people and destroy things, and the added weight of PTSD among veterans doesn't change the essential moral calculus that much. Participating in the Vietnam War wouldn't have become a good idea if it wasn't for PTSD, and participating in the Second World War doesn't become a bad idea just because of PTSD. But there's also no quantification of whether warfare is indeed the primary generator of PTSD cases; it's hard to find reliable statistics about it, but I would bet that most PTSD sufferers in the US are victims of sexual abuse rather than war veterans, since it's probably far, far more common for an American to be raped or sexually assaulted than for an American to join the military, go overseas, and actually participate in combat. Of course, rape isn't something we talk about much.
- noname123 16y ago
  I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision to take his own life. It was very well thought-out suicide note; I think most people are quite baffled by it because of the degree of author's rational explanations, extreme honesty and empathy for others in spite of his own pains. Also, he unintentionally perhaps shed light on programming which a lot of us could relate to, At times growing up I would feel inconsolable rage, but I never connected this to what happened until puberty. I was able to keep the darkness at bay for a few hours at a time by doing things that required intense concentration, but it would always come back. Programming appealed to me for this reason. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling. Like Bill Zeller, I retreated into programming at an early age to right a wrong and while programming is a lot of fun; I hid behind a screen to escape personal problems that I thought that the coding marathon high, money & prestige would solve. And the more fun programming got, the worse the issues got and the more I dived into my rabbit-hole. This is not to take away anything from Bill Zeller; he is an incredible brave man alive and dead. Anyone who went to Trinity knows that it's a very hostile environment for coming out. The fact that he kept coding software then and beyond and kept a completely normal pretense is incredible to me. And I want to thank him for his iTunes ripping software, his inspiration to me when I was at undergrad and his brutal honesty in his suicide note.
  - lwhi 16y ago
    I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision to take his own life. I disagree. Maybe it's possible to understand some of what he felt from his eloquent explanation, but I don't think suicide is ever the only solution. There will be other people reading this, who will be in similar situations. It fills me with so much sadness to think that there might be one who reads this and thinks .. 'yep, that was the right thing to do'. There isn't anything brave about taking your own life.
- Tycho 16y ago
  I stopped during the second paragraph, because I suspected as much. Maybe I'll read his old blogs instead, he was sounding like a captivating writer.
  - runningdogx 16y ago
    I had that same impression. Although he repeated some of the basic points (darkness, depression, social isolation) ad nauseam, he strikes me as someone who had potential as a writer. It's tragic that he did not explore writing as a non-terminal outlet for his darkness.
oomkiller 16y ago
Damn, I saw the original (now deadened) post about this, and quickly sent him a Facebook message to try to convince him to choose life. Looks like I failed. Such a shame for such a bright mind to end so sadly and suddenly. Rest in peace.
- karanbhangui 16y ago
  I was apparently the first person on the phone with Princeton police (calling from Canada), while my friend posted the original thread you speak of. It seems he had already begun to hang himself by this time. I somehow wish I could have called a minute or two earlier. And further, wish he had been able to talk to someone about this before it ended the way it did. RIP my friend.
  - peteforde 16y ago
    I sincerely hope you'll pardon the cliche, but you did everything you could. Thanks for doing that much. A lot of people would be frozen in shock upon receiving something like that.
beej71 16y ago
Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must have been to live with.
- jayzee 16y ago
  Send his note to your friends and friends of friends. Disseminate it widely. It will send the message that people care. Somebody you know may be dealing with something similar.
  - Anothrowaway 16y ago
    Someone going through the same thing and then witnessing the end result of it on this man isn't exactly positive reinforcement
    - phuff 16y ago
      The sad part is that there are people who can keep confidences. There are counselors who would keep his confidence. There are friends who would keep his confidence. I'm convinced there's probably even a girl out there who could love him enough for who he was to help him understand that even though the darkness was present her love was for him and was willing to deal with it's presence. If anything, this letter, and any suicide, can have the positive influence on the rest of us, encouraging us to reach out to those around us who are pained or troubled in anyway to just kind of try and lift their burdens for a moment. Sorry if that sounds unrealistic, but there's been two suicides in my neighborhood in the last 6 months, and in both cases I think if there'd been more public discussion of options, more open discussion in society about feeling like there's no way out and what you can do when you feel that way, if there had been people who had been willing to tell people, "Hey, I know you've got issues, but I'm willing to be your friend anyway..." that in some way their lives perhaps could have been altered.
      - khafra 16y ago
kiba 16y ago
All I can say is that I am angry. Not sad, but angry! Angry at what? The world? The fact that this can happen? The person that molest him? The incomprehensible miserable feeling that I cannot hope to understand? I don't know. I just can't comprehend it.
- getsat 16y ago
  If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being caught and punished, keep this in mind. I know I will be.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    > If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being caught and punished That's the majority of them. Sadly.
    - getsat 16y ago
      Too true. :/
deleted 16y ago
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postit 16y ago
Bill is like many others, haunted by his past, but appart from that he was a great men. Others would have killed many people rather than avoid much pain. see you some day bill.
- madair 16y ago
  i don't think Bill is into your fallacy dude, your "see you someday" fallacy killed him, have a little respect. (clearly the promoters of the comment above either didn't read the note, or have absolutely no sense of respect for what Bill said, ATROCIOUS)
  - rooshdi 16y ago
    I don't think his intention was to offend but rather to sympathize with what Bill was going through and pay his respects to Bill's life.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    The "see you someday" fallacy did not kill him. Actually, his contempt for his parents' religion (which is a tangential component in the note; certainly not its primary grievance and not "what killed him") was caused by the "I'll never see you because you'll be burning in awful hell forever because you disagree with my pastor" fallacy.
cookiecaper 16y ago
I've been wondering what the outcome was since the suicide note was posted here briefly the other day, and have been meaning to look for an obituary. It was a very powerful note. I hope he can finally access the peace he sought.
deleted 16y ago
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yogipatel 16y ago
Wow. Having grown up abused by my own parents (in all ways except sexually), I identify with a lot of what he says. I used to think of suicide daily, now I just think of death. Counseling (sans drugs) is what helped me get there. It's good and bad now, but there's a positive trend. I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals (though he does use the word doctor, so "counselor" might not be totally accurate). My counselor's office is where I most feel like myself, it's where I feel safe. If only Bill had a situation like that, he might still be here today. I didn't know the guy personally, but I've read stories like this before, and one thing that stands out to me is how amazing some people that have been through trauma like this are. He went through all the hell that he did, dealt with it on a daily basis, yet still had the capacity to do great work, to make people laugh, to attract others to him, and to generally do awesome things (http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-code http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-...). Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.
- bad_user 16y ago
  I think that what killed him is mistrusting other people. He said he never talked to nobody about his situation, but it's impossible to have a good relationship with a great secret like that. He mentions his darkness, but I don't think that's what ended his relationships. He also mentions counselors reading notes from previous sessions, but to me that's a sign they were doing their job properly; as they say "the devil's in the details". I replied to you, seeing that you've got the same problems. I've suffered depression at some point, I can relate (somewhat), and I've gotten over it by being sincere about my problems with everybody and by fixing whatever I could fix (instead of hiding / ignoring them).
  - yogipatel 16y ago
    I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable. I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me because that's what counselors are for — they're supposed to create an opportunity for someone like Bill to open up. It's clear to me he didn't like holding his trauma as a secret but was afraid of it being used against him somehow. Relationships are just an escape. He was aware of himself enough to know that, which is (was) a good sign. Darkness like his allows you to feel like you're head over heels in love in one moment, and then in another wonder WTF the point is if we're just going to die anyway. It's as if it were a drug. And like a drug, its efficacy fades over time. Good for you for being able to be honest and open about your problems! That takes balls. One technique that's worked while I'm in a depressed state is to just expect & accept it. When I get into a funk and think about how all I do is feel depressed, I tell myself, "No shit Yogi, of course you're going to feel this way, look at all the crap you have to deal with". Those few words don't get rid of the sad feeling, but it helps me get past it. I feel like that's all most people need, a way to get on with it. Even after years of therapy, I'm still amazed at how trained our brains can become. Unfortunately for many, that hard wiring forces them into a downward spiral, where from it's harder and harder to recover.
staunch 16y ago
Seems like he was a really smart guy. It's sad no one was able to help him. Rest in peace Bill Zeller.
leppie 16y ago
Sad story, but this is what depression feels like, if I had such a skeleton in the closet, I probably would have done the same. :*(
flipside 16y ago
As someone who once planned to take a secret to my grave, this whole thing saddens me. I was luckier in a way that altered the course of my life, I let slip to a friend in college that I had a secret. I had no intention of telling him of course, but then he went ahead listing dozens and dozens of possible secrets until he skipped over mine. So I took a chance and I told him and he accepted me. Looking back, that was the first crack in the darkness. People like me and Bill Zeller might only drop a hint that something is wrong once in our lives, don't be afraid to go chasing after it. Thanks for finally sharing Bill, rest in peace now.
- danielharan 16y ago
  A good reminder to be attentive. Thank you.
chanux 16y ago
Just like any opinion, one very well written, it kind of made me feel that he can be right. But No. I don't want to believe in that. Also, I really don't understand his situation. Only the one with the injury knows how painful it is. But I really wish the nice people don't leave the world so soon for a stupid reason. It was scary to read his explanations why he can not open up. We can send some peace Bill's soul's way if we learn the situation a bit better and try to be more helpful to people who might be in trouble.
zackattack 16y ago
This might be a good time to mention that we are looking for volunteers for http://CompassionPit.com/ http://CompassionPit.com/. It was created by people who have struggled with depression for most of their life. The other day someone commented about it, "I used CompassionPit for the first time this week. I really like the idea of it. Reminds me of when I reached out to an online videogame friend when I was 12 years old when I was super depressed." I think many people here can relate to this. Anyway, if you want to contribute you can do it in two ways. You can either just join and be present for other people, or you can help with the source code. It's written in python. Your help would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Edit: the source is available at https://github.com/zackster/CompassionPit https://github.com/zackster/CompassionPit - looking to add a few features... send me an email if you are available.
- kingsley_20 16y ago
  Great idea. Would you consider changing the "pit" part of the name?
  - zackattack 16y ago
    I would consider it but I am skeptical that it would be a worthwhile change. E.g. Something like "CompassionPlane" might promote more of a sense of equality but it also negates the dark truths that, if more readily confronted, would perhaps have helped certain people avoid the "pit" they are in. When you are feeling awful it does not help to pretend otherwise. You are truly feeling awful and not resisting it is the first step. I welcome your thoughts
    - endtime 16y ago
      I agree with Kingsley. "Pit" is a very depressing word, more likely to conjure up images of the doldrums than of compassion.
- yogipatel 16y ago
  Nice idea. You've got mail.
lwhi 16y ago
There are always unknown factors in any relationship, friendship or acquaintance. We can never know the full sum of another person's experiences, or how these have shaped the way they see the world. More than anything, the next time I feel wronged or judgemental - I'm going to make more of an effort to give the benefit of the doubt. The world isn't black or white - the shades of grey seem to increase with every day. Really, really sad.
brandnewlow 16y ago
This is a sad story. I am reminded of another Princeton suicide, Manzili Davis '06 drove to California during spring break of his senior year, rented a storage unit and took his life inside of it. It was weeks before he was found. http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/ http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/ We had mutual friends and I met him a few times. He had his own "darkness" just like Bill Zeller. I do wonder if places like Princeton bring out the darkness in people there. I enjoyed my time there but spent the last year of it in and out of counseling and more depressed than I ever hope to be again. There were some good counselors there in the health center who were kind and patient. It's too bad Bill wasn't able to connect with one of them. A lot of the problem is with the town. The "town" of Princeton is a sham propped up to impress visiting students. There's really not a whole lot there. Meanwhile, students are required to live in dorms all 4 years, which gives them a really artificial "home life" that doesn't help ground you very much either. I lived and worked in the town of Princeton for two years after graduation and it was a thoroughly depressing and isolating experience. Unless you're a member of the university community, there's just nothing there to get excited about. You have to leave on the train for the day to do anything interesting.
- wyclif 16y ago
  I disagree strongly that Princeton is a "sham" town-- it's very real and has its own identity outside of the University. I've spent quite a bit of time there and there are plenty of people who have lived there for years with no connection whatsoever to the school. As to your contention that there is "not a whole lot there", I would just give you Labyrinth Books as Exhibit A: one of the best bookstores on the East Coast IMO. I'm a little more open to your feeling that Princeton is isolated, but originally there was a reason for that. A lot of American schools are in the middle of nowhere. At one time this was a selling point for parents: they felt better sending their kids to schools where there was little chance of big-city trouble to get into like NY or Chicago (for example). It is a genuine tragedy if Bill Zeller fell victim to isolation that was originally planned to protect students, not psychologically alienate them.
- defen 16y ago
  Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but it's not a universal one. I did the same thing (4 years undergrad followed by 2 years living/working in the town) and had a great time. Other than reunions, I didn't do anything university-related after graduating, so it's not like I was just extending my college experience by two more years.
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RP_Joe 16y ago
Its a very sad story. Its a sad ending to a sad life. I have known many people with a horrible past. I cannot understand their pain. I cannot understand their depression because I have never experienced it. I can understand their desire to end it all. By observing and listening to their pain that goes on year after year, I can believe their life is very sad. When I was younger I wanted to become violent against the perpetrators of such crimes. Now that I am older, I realize this just adds to the problem. As a parent, his note is very revealing to me. A warning about how I could make mistakes with my children. I did not find it to intense. I am very grateful he took the time to explain everything. I am grateful he talked about his family. I will spend quit a bit of time thinking about his family and the mistakes they made. We can learn from his pain.
edw519 16y ago
Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I decided to file them all away and share only this old story: The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did. The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn out?" The new town drunk responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn out?" FWIW, I am like the bank president. I have no idea why. All I know is that no matter whatever anyone ever did to me, it didn't matter. I have no idea if someone who turned out like the new town drunk can change (although I imagine it happens all the time). All I do know is that it is possible for a victim to succeed and overcome all of his "darkness". If anyone has any history remotely close to OP's and is entertaining similar thoughts, feel free to contact me off-line. I will tell you right now what I'll respond with: absolutely nothing. Because I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how to become successful after being abused. But I do know that it's possible; I am living proof. Sometimes, just knowing that something is possible is enough to pursue it until you get it. I'm truly sorry that OP's story ended like it did. Especially sorry because I know it could have been different. I just don't know how. Now no one will.
- buro9 16y ago
  Thank you. Just thank you. Also carrying a shadow, and I tried to say what you've managed to say so well. Also available for out-of-the-blue emails should anyone want to chat.
- TheSOB88 16y ago
  An interesting note: filing your feelings away is what caused this whole thing. Of course, the ones you're filing away may not be as painful for you, but still.
  - Retric 16y ago
    I think repression is an area where people use the same words to talk about different things. Which is why I try and separating things as Successful repression which is used by most people on a regular basis and can be extremely helpful. However, "Whenever I think about what happened I feel manic and itchy and can't concentrate on anything else." suggests that the pain was not repressed just ignored which does not really deal with the problem. Don't get me wrong ignoring things is also a useful technique for short term pain. However, it's best used for things like planing the funeral etc and if you are still using it after a few years it's really time to try something else / seek help.
mitsche82 16y ago
A lot of this letter described what I felt like up until just a few months ago. I have also had experience with physical and emotional violence (no rape though) and felt absolutely worthless most of my life. One year ago I decided to seek out a therapist, which was one of the hardest things ever to do for me. Therapy has been painful at times, sometimes leaving me completely in shambles. But today I can say that I'm happy to be alive, and I feel worth of being loved and I escaped the dark cloud that used to surround me almost constantly for the majority of my life. What I'm saying is: seek professional help. If you feel like you can't go on anymore, seek professional help. Talking helps. Let go of the secrets that keep eating you up alive. Share them with at least one person, be it a friend or a professional. But under no circumstance keep them to yourself until they kill you. Some of them weigh too much too carry them alone. Let someone help you.
- 2oi03i9fhujcnd 16y ago
  Bill wanted to tell someone, but only one person. The problem is that you can't tell one person because everyone has someone else that they will tell. Someone always has a higher allegiance to another than you. Maybe it is different for married people, but then we get a chicken and egg problem. How can you find a partner to marry when issues like this, kept secret, keep you from having a long-term relationship? He tried to trust people at Trinity but they spread his secrets. He knows that doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information. He probably floated personal information his whole life to people to see if they could be trusted. I bet each secret came back to him from another party. He couldn't find a person to trust so he didn't disclose his ultimate secret. He only wanted 1 person. He could deal with 1. Maybe years later 2 people, but for now just 1. Not 1 in an anonymous posting online. Not 1 in a chat room. 1 right in front of you. The problem is that there isn't 1. Some people can deal with that, being open and all. For some, the quest for 1 is the goal, and realization that there isn't 1 is hard to take. It doesn't help. I read a lot of me in that letter. I am 29 now. Will I make it to 30? Yes. 35? Maybe. 40? ...
  - gphil 16y ago
    I'd like to respond to your assertion that "he knows that doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information." This is true, but I think that it would be possible to find a counselor that would not disclose any information, even if they were technically allowed to do so. Furthermore, it seems possible to me that such secrets could be partially disclosed to a counselor in a way in which there would be no incentive for that counselor to pass along the information to another party. Not having been in this kind of situation before, I can't imagine how horrible it would be to harbor such a secret for a lifetime, and perhaps for Bill the sheer weight of it made it impossible for him to tell anyone. But, I would just like to try to make the point that there are viable options other than keeping secrets bottled up. As for your final comment, I sincerely hope that you can find the help that you need to make it through whatever it is that is distressing you.
_pius 16y ago
Terrible, shocking news. I knew Bill in passing, as we'd talked about doing a project together. He was a very nice, very smart guy. He will be missed.
yeahsure 16y ago
A very dear friend of mine just committed suicide a month ago. He was a very intelligent guy about to become successful. I wish he would have left a note like this behind to know why he did it. I realize this comment doesn't add much value to the conversation, I'm just thinking out loud. Thanks.
savoy11 16y ago
It is a very sad story, but... well, I do not like to sound like a dick, but there are many people worse off and they manage to get by and even make other people happy. For example I do not really even had a family AT ALL. I know people that have been born disabled, etc. It is not really fair to compare abuse with that, but - problems tend to happen and we need to deal with them. Again - if this is his choice and this is how he chose to deal with that - that's fine, but this kind of public stunt at then end + dissing his family publicly is not really the best way he could have dealt with it. From his post he seems to have had deep clinical depression and while his traumatic experience in the past might have been at the root of this, this certainly does not justify 30+ years of constant depression. Literally half of the people in this world have witnessed friends die, live in pain/problems, depression - but choose to keep low profile with that. Public suicide on the internet - not cool.
basseq 16y ago
Strange to see a name on HN and think, wait, I knew someone with that name. Wait, the guy I knew went to Princeton. Wait... I never met Bill in person, but we collaborated on a couple projects and used to exchange random e-mails and IMs. He was a bright guy and I enjoyed our correspondence. His note is heartbreaking, and I hope he has finally found peace.
nickl 16y ago
I think he should have joined doctors without borders, peace corps or whatever it is called, or one of those Christian mission (even though he had a problem with Christians) . He may have found peace in helping those who suffered more then him
- 51Cards 16y ago
  I think you missed the section of his letter stating that part of his decision was based on his internal desire to hurt others. He truly felt if unchecked his darkness would lead him to take life other than his own. His decision for him was not only a release from his torment, but a protection of others. Rest well, Bill. I never knew you directly but after this insight into who you were, I do wish I had.
- tomjen3 16y ago
  Do you really think most of the people doctors without borders helped suffered as much as he did?
  - aik 16y ago
    I don't think any of us can honestly answer that question. Why is it even relevant what state most of the people are in.
  - nickl 16y ago
    Yes.
- talleyrand 16y ago
  Suicide is fine, if your parents are dead, you have no children or no spouse. Have at it.
jaysonelliot 16y ago
I so wish people would write out "Rest in Peace." I know the intent is not to be disrespectful in any way, but the letters RIP just seem so inappropriate for such a serious and important sentiment.
cduruk 16y ago
I went to a boarding school in high school. Being a relatively nice school, we had campuswide wireless and and the last two years of my education there, we were also allowed to have our laptops in the dorms. So when I discovered MyTunes which allowed every single student in the dormitory to access each other's music, it was an instant hit. Pretty sure everyone with a laptop and iTunes had it installed and there was one particular time I remember the IT guys realizing the awkward amount of traffic originating around the boys' dorm. I met Bill when we interned at the same company during the summer of 2009. He was a very reserved guy, not shy or introverted --or maybe a little--. During a boring afternoon, I remember googling him and finding out that he was the who wrote MyTunes. This was then my first foray into the tech industry and right there I was chatting it up with the guy who wrote that random piece of software that became a hit at my school. It was very weird for me and I think I made it weird for Bill for a while too because I made such a big deal out of it. I'd not say we became good friends but I became someone Bill would at least come say hi when we had stuff together as interns and that made me feel special. We talked about random things several times, we had one particular fun conversation about life in CT and another about deanonymizing data from AOL search results. During that summer, Bill transformed from being a rather chubby guy to a decent looking man; I think he had put pictures of himself before and after the summer. It was kind of humbling as I was kind of trying to do the same but couldn't pull it off like he did. Once the internship was over, we became friends on Facebook and talked randomly every once in a while. Maybe a few times at best. I liked his status updates, he liked mine. Stuff like that. So few days ago, I woke up sick at 6AM (PST) and kind of involuntarily logged in to Facebook. I saw his status update which was just "Note: <link>". I clicked on it and there it was, that note. Sitting in my bed, reading the first paragraphs, I wasn't sure if this was something he wrote, something he wanted to share or some sort of random writing. It took me a few passes of the first few paragraphs to realize that this was what I thought it was. Once I realized that, I started shivering. I knew I had to do something but wasn't sure what I had to do. I saw my RA from college was online; I told him that I think I saw a suicide note on Facebook and I was calling the police. He told me that I should first call my friend but I didn't have Bill's #. So I looked up the Princeton PD's phone number and gave them a call. As soon as I mentioned "Bill Zeller", they transferred me first to a "safety official" and then to another. The gentlemen on the phone told me that "someone has found him" and they "took him down for treatment". I asked him about his condition but all he'd say was "he is receiving treatment". They took down my phone number and my name and I hung up. As a response to what I realized has happened, I sent Bill a pretty lengthy message on Facebook. I told "him" that I wasn't qualified to say anything about his pain but I would be very upset to see a man like him perish. I told him a part of the MyTunes story, probably the 10th time now. I told him that things, however shitty, might become would get better. I felt like I had to tell him that I cared. I told him to "hit me up" when he comes to SF. I think we had a brief conversation on Facebook when I posted something about moving to SF and how he'd say hi. It feels very weird that I sent that message now. No idea if anyone is going to read it. If I believed in god or after-life, I would have hoped that he'd see it. Now I saw the news, weirdly on HN before anywhere else. I read the MeFi link and all the comments here; I saw Karan's comments about how he called Princeton PD too. This is all weird to me and I have no idea why I am writing this. Some sort of self-help, I guess. I checked his Facebook account. It's bizarre, it really is. This is not the first suicide of someone I knew or the first suicide of someone on Facebook whose profile I can see. People are commenting, posting things. There are a few comments like "I hope you can pull thru", posted around the time his condition become public and then it becomes all condolences as the news of his passing is heard. It is weird to see him posting photos of a random desert he made a few days before he hung himself. I don't want to turn this into a cheesy "how technology has life and death" thing so I'll stop here. When I read the note, what stuck wasn't that he was abused but how big of a secret he had and still couldn't do anything about it. Or even more than that, how something like this ate him up from the inside, consumed him. That just makes me look at people around him and wonder. And then I feel childish, for wondering for things like that. I had a really big mistrust for most people around me, caused by a rather traumatic incident. Nothing too extraordinary, I just took it badly. I felt like everyone around me was out to get each other. I don't think I ever considered suicide but I remember thinking that I'll carry that scar for the rest of my life. I wish that Bill could get help. As others have said, there are people you can trust your secrets with, maybe not your friends but professional counselors. I cannot get myself to say "I respect his decision" as this is someone taking their life and I wish he didn't perish like this but part of me feels that at least he won't suffer the way he had been apparently. I'll take a few moments today to think about my issues, things that make me upset and will try to talk to someone about them. Maybe I'll drink a bit, talk to some friends about some of my issues, most of which are admittedly minor. I hope everyone who reads the news of Bill takes a few moments to think about their life and how they can help themselves. Maybe that way, he'll have helped others handle their problems and not do what he did.
elliottcarlson 16y ago
Without going in to many details, I understand where he is coming from. I don't have the same history as Bill did, but I have lived through a generous amount of trauma that has left me to be diagnosed with PTSD, much as it seems he was dealing with. I have seen myself in his shoes in the past, and thankfully for me I have been able to move on and share my life with someone who understands my past, and let me understand her past which has been filled with similar trauma. While it is a shame to see someone take their life, I can't help but agree that it is not selfish to commit suicide, but rather it is selfish to make someone live with the pain they are enduring. This doesn't make it OK, nor should people take that route, and at all costs should someone do their best to get the help they need - because no matter what, there is someone who can and will listen to you when it comes down to it. In the end though, don't hold it against the person if this is their ultimate decision - and think about try to remember them for the positive things that they stand for. When my best friend killed himself in front of me, I didn't know what to do, or how to react - I now understand and forgive him for everything, even though I think it could have been better for him in the long run if we had spent 15 minutes talking about his problems... My condolences to his family and friends. I wish him peace and serenity - he deserves it.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
'You may wonder why I didn't just talk to a professional about this. I've seen a number of doctors since I was a teenager to talk about other issues and I'm positive that another doctor would not have helped. I was never given one piece of actionable advice, ever.' I hate that word 'actionable'. Every time I hear it used it is with the implicit assumption that the only information of value is information that is directly 'actionable', which is completely false. There is also information that enlightens, that expands our understanding of ourselves, other people, or the world, that changes our perspective, or answers why things are the way they are, that is equally or more valuable. That kind of knowledge is not directly 'actionable', but often shows the way forward. The psychologist Milton Erickson showed that people innately know what they need to do overcome internal problems, but sometimes need an external impetus to realize and do it. Erickson found ways of providing that impetus with mirroring, indirect logic, and reframing, among others. Too bad Bill never found someone like that.
- yogipatel 16y ago
  Very well said, I totally agree. It's not always black and white.
chewedwire 16y ago
Wow...I knew him at Princeton in a passing sense, we were in the same computer graphics class and he advised my group for another class. He was without a doubt a brilliant guy.
michaelty 16y ago
RIP Bill. Hopefully, the pain has stopped now.
rudyadler 16y ago
Bill's family & friends have set up a Memory Page to share memories together online. http://1000Memories.com/BillZeller http://1000Memories.com/BillZeller If you knew Bill, please join his page.
VeXocide 16y ago
I'm just truly lost for words, hope he finds peace.
expressive 16y ago
This is a sad day for all programmers, and also for those who have been molested in any way. I cannot honestly understand the true pain he must have felt, but I believe his pain was unlike anything most of us can understand. What was most telling was his utter disgust for his parents, to the extent he loathed them even more than he loathed the person who molested him and caused darkness to reign over his life. And most ironic is that his parents believed abandoning him for the love of God was in their and his best interest. I am a Christian, and it sickens me what they have done because of what they believed as him not being "saved." I want to believe him, that he took his life because of the "darkness" in his life, resulting from being molested as a child. But I am still puzzled that he never spoke a word of disgust about the person who molested him. This was shocking, considering he laid into his friends who couldn't keep a secret, he mercilessly criticized his parents, yet never mention a bad word about the molester, only the "darkness." Unless, and this might be huge, the "darkness" is his father. He said his mother loves him at one point, but he never said a good word about his dad. He only criticized his father (while criticizing both parents). I am beginning to think his father is the one who molested him, considering everything in his letter. The letter was very important, because it allows the reader to carefully study and try to understand what might have caused this young man to take his own life. Though being molested caused him much trouble and "darkness" throughout his life, I believe his parents are partly to be blame for his mindful decline into frightful and terrifying non-existence. And the big secret in his letter is probably that his father molested him.
jodrellblank 16y ago
I've no business commenting on this as I haven't ever suffered a similar sort of trauma, you could argue. However I did start reading this note and found myself strongly flustered at this part: I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling. I'm annoyed at how stupid it is. And how, until recently, I wouldn't even have noticed. Let me translate to illustrate: I desperately wanted to see what was on top of that hill over there. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would find out what is at the top of the hill. But nothing I did made a dent in my knowledge Wouldn't that be silly? Wouldn't that make you wonder what he was thinking? Wouldn't you say "so go climb the hill. That's what you need to do and that's all you need to do. Forget the distractions. Go over there. Climb the hill as high as you can and keep trying every few days until you build up the fitness to get to the top". Yet you see the note of the guy and you feel sorry for him and how hard he tried to keep living and how much he struggled and what pain he was in and he missed this concept completely. If you want peace you need to work on peace and why you can't be at peace and changing yourself so you can. If you want to not be haunted you need to work on not being haunted and if you want to be happy you need to work on being happy and how you can be. Not on grad school or weight loss or gym work or anything else. Your life isn't unhappy, your thoughts are unhappy. Don't improve your life, improve your thoughts. It might not work, but the other way cannot work. If your code isn't working right, you'll never ever ever fix it by going to the gym. You will only stand any chance of fixing it if you look for the bugs in the code that isn't working and out from there. If you have been hurt and can't be happy, you need to work out how to feel happy even though you got hurt. That's it. That mental adjustment is where the bulk of your energy should be going. Learning to change it and trying repeatedly until you succeed. It's so frustrating to look at it and see him basically saying "I skirted around my problems all my life and suffered horribly, and when they didn't magically go away I decided they were completely unfixable". You can feel however you like about whatever you like. This definitely extends to feeling good even when bad things happen. Maybe not all bad things, but many. It may not extend to PTSD. What's frustrating is that he believed he was unfixable without any solid basis for that belief - without talking to a single expert, even - then made the biggest and last decision of his life based on this conclusion. It's not cowardly or morally inferior or anything like that, it's just ... a strategy that stands a low chance of helping.
abirikcham 16y ago
My perps were never caught either. I identify with a lot of the feelings he illustrated in this letter. It's bringing tears to my eyes. It is so hard to explain something as controversial as this to people who have never experienced or do not understand it, and Bill did a momentous job. Rest in peace, Bill Zeller, and I wish for a moment that I believed in some kind of afterlife, because you deserve heaven after all this hell you've been through.

370 points by joshfraser 16y ago

Wow. That was intense. Not expecting to read such a well thought out note.

A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for awhile. Such a shame.

Vivtek 16y ago
I'm still crying. I might be tomorrow.
deleted 16y ago
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davidhollander 16y ago
From reading the letter you can tell he was suffering extremely from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder throughout much of his life. I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war If you want to do something other than sit around feeling sad for a while, help address one of the above problems and prevent the situation from happening again. [further reading] http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3850302.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/artic... >Ecstasy is the key to treating PTSD At last the incurably traumatised may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And controversially, the key to taming their demons is the ‘killer’ drug Ecstasy http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/ http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/ >For-profit pharmaceutical companies are not interested in developing MDMA into a medicine, because the patent for MDMA has expired. Companies cannot profit off of MDMA because it is only administered a limited number of times, unlike most medications for mental illnesses that are taken on a daily basis. Consequently MAPS is the only organization funding clinical trials of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in the world http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/ns/health-mental_health/ >1 in 8 returning soldiers suffers from PTSD But less than half with problems seek help, report finds
- alexgartrell 16y ago
  This is a very serious thing, and I don't intend to start any kind of back-and-forth here and further distract from the real issues here. That said, standing on a political soap box about drug laws and war when Mr. Zeller's primary problem was obviously having been molested is ridiculous. Yes, it's possible that ecstasy in a clinical setting may have helped him, but he was let down in a lot more ways than an inability to get that particular treatment (as he says in the note, he wasn't even seeking treatment). It's disrespectful to pin this political issue to a man's final note to the world. Even if this was an issue Mr. Zeller felt strongly about, he obviously didn't mean to be some kind of martyr for it. edited to add: I don't disagree with your point, I just think your timing is awful.
  - davidhollander 16y ago
    I respect your disagreement. I see how grouping abuse with other forms of post-traumatic stress could be viewed insensitive to the personal suffering of Mr. Zeller. However, from a psychological perspective, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in all forms is associated with the recurring visions, nightmares, avoidance of treatment, and extreme cumulative pain he refers to. I justify and stand by the timing of my comment using the principle of harm reduction. Whenever painful incidents occur that challenge us very deeply psychologically, the world would be a better place if we all stopped and thought about how we contribute to that pattern of suffering... rather than brushing it under the cognitive rug to "think about later". Because usually we never will.
- philwelch 16y ago
  I did not feel sad as much as disgusted that, through our politicians, we have: A) made illegal the most effective treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder : MDMA B) continue to support the primary generator of new PTSD cases: war A) You're going to have to do better than The Times, MSNBC, and a pro-psychedelic-legalization think tank to say MDMA is the most effective treatment. I'm not closed-minded to the idea that psychedelic drugs have positive psychiatric applications or that they should be legalized, but there's a lot of literature about treatments overall, and you've offered no comparative studies measuring the difference between MDMA and, for instance, cognitive behavioral therapy. B) The stereotypical PTSD case is a returning war veteran. If you hadn't noticed, though, wars also tend to kill people and destroy things, and the added weight of PTSD among veterans doesn't change the essential moral calculus that much. Participating in the Vietnam War wouldn't have become a good idea if it wasn't for PTSD, and participating in the Second World War doesn't become a bad idea just because of PTSD. But there's also no quantification of whether warfare is indeed the primary generator of PTSD cases; it's hard to find reliable statistics about it, but I would bet that most PTSD sufferers in the US are victims of sexual abuse rather than war veterans, since it's probably far, far more common for an American to be raped or sexually assaulted than for an American to join the military, go overseas, and actually participate in combat. Of course, rape isn't something we talk about much.
noname123 16y ago
I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision to take his own life. It was very well thought-out suicide note; I think most people are quite baffled by it because of the degree of author's rational explanations, extreme honesty and empathy for others in spite of his own pains. Also, he unintentionally perhaps shed light on programming which a lot of us could relate to, At times growing up I would feel inconsolable rage, but I never connected this to what happened until puberty. I was able to keep the darkness at bay for a few hours at a time by doing things that required intense concentration, but it would always come back. Programming appealed to me for this reason. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling. Like Bill Zeller, I retreated into programming at an early age to right a wrong and while programming is a lot of fun; I hid behind a screen to escape personal problems that I thought that the coding marathon high, money & prestige would solve. And the more fun programming got, the worse the issues got and the more I dived into my rabbit-hole. This is not to take away anything from Bill Zeller; he is an incredible brave man alive and dead. Anyone who went to Trinity knows that it's a very hostile environment for coming out. The fact that he kept coding software then and beyond and kept a completely normal pretense is incredible to me. And I want to thank him for his iTunes ripping software, his inspiration to me when I was at undergrad and his brutal honesty in his suicide note.
- lwhi 16y ago
  I for one, thought that it was quite positive thing and I respect his decision to take his own life. I disagree. Maybe it's possible to understand some of what he felt from his eloquent explanation, but I don't think suicide is ever the only solution. There will be other people reading this, who will be in similar situations. It fills me with so much sadness to think that there might be one who reads this and thinks .. 'yep, that was the right thing to do'. There isn't anything brave about taking your own life.
Tycho 16y ago
I stopped during the second paragraph, because I suspected as much. Maybe I'll read his old blogs instead, he was sounding like a captivating writer.
- runningdogx 16y ago
  I had that same impression. Although he repeated some of the basic points (darkness, depression, social isolation) ad nauseam, he strikes me as someone who had potential as a writer. It's tragic that he did not explore writing as a non-terminal outlet for his darkness.

oomkiller 16y ago

Damn, I saw the original (now deadened) post about this, and quickly sent him a Facebook message to try to convince him to choose life. Looks like I failed. Such a shame for such a bright mind to end so sadly and suddenly. Rest in peace.

karanbhangui 16y ago
I was apparently the first person on the phone with Princeton police (calling from Canada), while my friend posted the original thread you speak of. It seems he had already begun to hang himself by this time. I somehow wish I could have called a minute or two earlier. And further, wish he had been able to talk to someone about this before it ended the way it did. RIP my friend.
- peteforde 16y ago
  I sincerely hope you'll pardon the cliche, but you did everything you could. Thanks for doing that much. A lot of people would be frozen in shock upon receiving something like that.

beej71 16y ago

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must have been to live with.

jayzee 16y ago
Send his note to your friends and friends of friends. Disseminate it widely. It will send the message that people care. Somebody you know may be dealing with something similar.
- Anothrowaway 16y ago
  Someone going through the same thing and then witnessing the end result of it on this man isn't exactly positive reinforcement
  - phuff 16y ago
    The sad part is that there are people who can keep confidences. There are counselors who would keep his confidence. There are friends who would keep his confidence. I'm convinced there's probably even a girl out there who could love him enough for who he was to help him understand that even though the darkness was present her love was for him and was willing to deal with it's presence. If anything, this letter, and any suicide, can have the positive influence on the rest of us, encouraging us to reach out to those around us who are pained or troubled in anyway to just kind of try and lift their burdens for a moment. Sorry if that sounds unrealistic, but there's been two suicides in my neighborhood in the last 6 months, and in both cases I think if there'd been more public discussion of options, more open discussion in society about feeling like there's no way out and what you can do when you feel that way, if there had been people who had been willing to tell people, "Hey, I know you've got issues, but I'm willing to be your friend anyway..." that in some way their lives perhaps could have been altered.
    - khafra 16y ago

kiba 16y ago

All I can say is that I am angry. Not sad, but angry! Angry at what? The world? The fact that this can happen? The person that molest him? The incomprehensible miserable feeling that I cannot hope to understand? I don't know. I just can't comprehend it.

getsat 16y ago
If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being caught and punished, keep this in mind. I know I will be.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  > If you ever see an injustice being committed without the perpetrator being caught and punished That's the majority of them. Sadly.
  - getsat 16y ago
    Too true. :/

deleted 16y ago

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postit 16y ago

Bill is like many others, haunted by his past, but appart from that he was a great men. Others would have killed many people rather than avoid much pain. see you some day bill.

madair 16y ago
i don't think Bill is into your fallacy dude, your "see you someday" fallacy killed him, have a little respect. (clearly the promoters of the comment above either didn't read the note, or have absolutely no sense of respect for what Bill said, ATROCIOUS)
- rooshdi 16y ago
  I don't think his intention was to offend but rather to sympathize with what Bill was going through and pay his respects to Bill's life.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  The "see you someday" fallacy did not kill him. Actually, his contempt for his parents' religion (which is a tangential component in the note; certainly not its primary grievance and not "what killed him") was caused by the "I'll never see you because you'll be burning in awful hell forever because you disagree with my pastor" fallacy.

cookiecaper 16y ago

I've been wondering what the outcome was since the suicide note was posted here briefly the other day, and have been meaning to look for an obituary. It was a very powerful note. I hope he can finally access the peace he sought.

deleted 16y ago

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yogipatel 16y ago

Wow. Having grown up abused by my own parents (in all ways except sexually), I identify with a lot of what he says. I used to think of suicide daily, now I just think of death. Counseling (sans drugs) is what helped me get there. It's good and bad now, but there's a positive trend. I think what saddens me most about this note is his experience with counseling professionals (though he does use the word doctor, so "counselor" might not be totally accurate). My counselor's office is where I most feel like myself, it's where I feel safe. If only Bill had a situation like that, he might still be here today. I didn't know the guy personally, but I've read stories like this before, and one thing that stands out to me is how amazing some people that have been through trauma like this are. He went through all the hell that he did, dealt with it on a daily basis, yet still had the capacity to do great work, to make people laugh, to attract others to him, and to generally do awesome things (http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-code http://blog.from.bz/2009/03/01/sudo-make-me-a-sandwich-stub-...). Do yourself a favor and read the note all the way through. Pass it around. Remember that in general, half of the people you see every day have it shittier than you do. Try not to be a jerk.

bad_user 16y ago
I think that what killed him is mistrusting other people. He said he never talked to nobody about his situation, but it's impossible to have a good relationship with a great secret like that. He mentions his darkness, but I don't think that's what ended his relationships. He also mentions counselors reading notes from previous sessions, but to me that's a sign they were doing their job properly; as they say "the devil's in the details". I replied to you, seeing that you've got the same problems. I've suffered depression at some point, I can relate (somewhat), and I've gotten over it by being sincere about my problems with everybody and by fixing whatever I could fix (instead of hiding / ignoring them).
- yogipatel 16y ago
  I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable. I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me because that's what counselors are for — they're supposed to create an opportunity for someone like Bill to open up. It's clear to me he didn't like holding his trauma as a secret but was afraid of it being used against him somehow. Relationships are just an escape. He was aware of himself enough to know that, which is (was) a good sign. Darkness like his allows you to feel like you're head over heels in love in one moment, and then in another wonder WTF the point is if we're just going to die anyway. It's as if it were a drug. And like a drug, its efficacy fades over time. Good for you for being able to be honest and open about your problems! That takes balls. One technique that's worked while I'm in a depressed state is to just expect & accept it. When I get into a funk and think about how all I do is feel depressed, I tell myself, "No shit Yogi, of course you're going to feel this way, look at all the crap you have to deal with". Those few words don't get rid of the sad feeling, but it helps me get past it. I feel like that's all most people need, a way to get on with it. Even after years of therapy, I'm still amazed at how trained our brains can become. Unfortunately for many, that hard wiring forces them into a downward spiral, where from it's harder and harder to recover.

staunch 16y ago

Seems like he was a really smart guy. It's sad no one was able to help him. Rest in peace Bill Zeller.

leppie 16y ago

Sad story, but this is what depression feels like, if I had such a skeleton in the closet, I probably would have done the same. :*(

flipside 16y ago

As someone who once planned to take a secret to my grave, this whole thing saddens me. I was luckier in a way that altered the course of my life, I let slip to a friend in college that I had a secret. I had no intention of telling him of course, but then he went ahead listing dozens and dozens of possible secrets until he skipped over mine. So I took a chance and I told him and he accepted me. Looking back, that was the first crack in the darkness. People like me and Bill Zeller might only drop a hint that something is wrong once in our lives, don't be afraid to go chasing after it. Thanks for finally sharing Bill, rest in peace now.

danielharan 16y ago
A good reminder to be attentive. Thank you.

chanux 16y ago

Just like any opinion, one very well written, it kind of made me feel that he can be right. But No. I don't want to believe in that. Also, I really don't understand his situation. Only the one with the injury knows how painful it is. But I really wish the nice people don't leave the world so soon for a stupid reason. It was scary to read his explanations why he can not open up. We can send some peace Bill's soul's way if we learn the situation a bit better and try to be more helpful to people who might be in trouble.

zackattack 16y ago

This might be a good time to mention that we are looking for volunteers for http://CompassionPit.com/ http://CompassionPit.com/. It was created by people who have struggled with depression for most of their life. The other day someone commented about it, "I used CompassionPit for the first time this week. I really like the idea of it. Reminds me of when I reached out to an online videogame friend when I was 12 years old when I was super depressed." I think many people here can relate to this. Anyway, if you want to contribute you can do it in two ways. You can either just join and be present for other people, or you can help with the source code. It's written in python. Your help would be very much appreciated. Thanks. Edit: the source is available at https://github.com/zackster/CompassionPit https://github.com/zackster/CompassionPit - looking to add a few features... send me an email if you are available.

kingsley_20 16y ago
Great idea. Would you consider changing the "pit" part of the name?
- zackattack 16y ago
  I would consider it but I am skeptical that it would be a worthwhile change. E.g. Something like "CompassionPlane" might promote more of a sense of equality but it also negates the dark truths that, if more readily confronted, would perhaps have helped certain people avoid the "pit" they are in. When you are feeling awful it does not help to pretend otherwise. You are truly feeling awful and not resisting it is the first step. I welcome your thoughts
  - endtime 16y ago
    I agree with Kingsley. "Pit" is a very depressing word, more likely to conjure up images of the doldrums than of compassion.
yogipatel 16y ago
Nice idea. You've got mail.

lwhi 16y ago

There are always unknown factors in any relationship, friendship or acquaintance. We can never know the full sum of another person's experiences, or how these have shaped the way they see the world. More than anything, the next time I feel wronged or judgemental - I'm going to make more of an effort to give the benefit of the doubt. The world isn't black or white - the shades of grey seem to increase with every day. Really, really sad.

brandnewlow 16y ago

This is a sad story. I am reminded of another Princeton suicide, Manzili Davis '06 drove to California during spring break of his senior year, rented a storage unit and took his life inside of it. It was weeks before he was found. http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/ http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/ We had mutual friends and I met him a few times. He had his own "darkness" just like Bill Zeller. I do wonder if places like Princeton bring out the darkness in people there. I enjoyed my time there but spent the last year of it in and out of counseling and more depressed than I ever hope to be again. There were some good counselors there in the health center who were kind and patient. It's too bad Bill wasn't able to connect with one of them. A lot of the problem is with the town. The "town" of Princeton is a sham propped up to impress visiting students. There's really not a whole lot there. Meanwhile, students are required to live in dorms all 4 years, which gives them a really artificial "home life" that doesn't help ground you very much either. I lived and worked in the town of Princeton for two years after graduation and it was a thoroughly depressing and isolating experience. Unless you're a member of the university community, there's just nothing there to get excited about. You have to leave on the train for the day to do anything interesting.

wyclif 16y ago
I disagree strongly that Princeton is a "sham" town-- it's very real and has its own identity outside of the University. I've spent quite a bit of time there and there are plenty of people who have lived there for years with no connection whatsoever to the school. As to your contention that there is "not a whole lot there", I would just give you Labyrinth Books as Exhibit A: one of the best bookstores on the East Coast IMO. I'm a little more open to your feeling that Princeton is isolated, but originally there was a reason for that. A lot of American schools are in the middle of nowhere. At one time this was a selling point for parents: they felt better sending their kids to schools where there was little chance of big-city trouble to get into like NY or Chicago (for example). It is a genuine tragedy if Bill Zeller fell victim to isolation that was originally planned to protect students, not psychologically alienate them.
defen 16y ago
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, but it's not a universal one. I did the same thing (4 years undergrad followed by 2 years living/working in the town) and had a great time. Other than reunions, I didn't do anything university-related after graduating, so it's not like I was just extending my college experience by two more years.

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RP_Joe 16y ago

Its a very sad story. Its a sad ending to a sad life. I have known many people with a horrible past. I cannot understand their pain. I cannot understand their depression because I have never experienced it. I can understand their desire to end it all. By observing and listening to their pain that goes on year after year, I can believe their life is very sad. When I was younger I wanted to become violent against the perpetrators of such crimes. Now that I am older, I realize this just adds to the problem. As a parent, his note is very revealing to me. A warning about how I could make mistakes with my children. I did not find it to intense. I am very grateful he took the time to explain everything. I am grateful he talked about his family. I will spend quit a bit of time thinking about his family and the mistakes they made. We can learn from his pain.

edw519 16y ago

Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I decided to file them all away and share only this old story: The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did. The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn out?" The new town drunk responded, "With a father like that, how else could I turn out?" FWIW, I am like the bank president. I have no idea why. All I know is that no matter whatever anyone ever did to me, it didn't matter. I have no idea if someone who turned out like the new town drunk can change (although I imagine it happens all the time). All I do know is that it is possible for a victim to succeed and overcome all of his "darkness". If anyone has any history remotely close to OP's and is entertaining similar thoughts, feel free to contact me off-line. I will tell you right now what I'll respond with: absolutely nothing. Because I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how to become successful after being abused. But I do know that it's possible; I am living proof. Sometimes, just knowing that something is possible is enough to pursue it until you get it. I'm truly sorry that OP's story ended like it did. Especially sorry because I know it could have been different. I just don't know how. Now no one will.

buro9 16y ago
Thank you. Just thank you. Also carrying a shadow, and I tried to say what you've managed to say so well. Also available for out-of-the-blue emails should anyone want to chat.
TheSOB88 16y ago
An interesting note: filing your feelings away is what caused this whole thing. Of course, the ones you're filing away may not be as painful for you, but still.
- Retric 16y ago
  I think repression is an area where people use the same words to talk about different things. Which is why I try and separating things as Successful repression which is used by most people on a regular basis and can be extremely helpful. However, "Whenever I think about what happened I feel manic and itchy and can't concentrate on anything else." suggests that the pain was not repressed just ignored which does not really deal with the problem. Don't get me wrong ignoring things is also a useful technique for short term pain. However, it's best used for things like planing the funeral etc and if you are still using it after a few years it's really time to try something else / seek help.

mitsche82 16y ago

A lot of this letter described what I felt like up until just a few months ago. I have also had experience with physical and emotional violence (no rape though) and felt absolutely worthless most of my life. One year ago I decided to seek out a therapist, which was one of the hardest things ever to do for me. Therapy has been painful at times, sometimes leaving me completely in shambles. But today I can say that I'm happy to be alive, and I feel worth of being loved and I escaped the dark cloud that used to surround me almost constantly for the majority of my life. What I'm saying is: seek professional help. If you feel like you can't go on anymore, seek professional help. Talking helps. Let go of the secrets that keep eating you up alive. Share them with at least one person, be it a friend or a professional. But under no circumstance keep them to yourself until they kill you. Some of them weigh too much too carry them alone. Let someone help you.

2oi03i9fhujcnd 16y ago
Bill wanted to tell someone, but only one person. The problem is that you can't tell one person because everyone has someone else that they will tell. Someone always has a higher allegiance to another than you. Maybe it is different for married people, but then we get a chicken and egg problem. How can you find a partner to marry when issues like this, kept secret, keep you from having a long-term relationship? He tried to trust people at Trinity but they spread his secrets. He knows that doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information. He probably floated personal information his whole life to people to see if they could be trusted. I bet each secret came back to him from another party. He couldn't find a person to trust so he didn't disclose his ultimate secret. He only wanted 1 person. He could deal with 1. Maybe years later 2 people, but for now just 1. Not 1 in an anonymous posting online. Not 1 in a chat room. 1 right in front of you. The problem is that there isn't 1. Some people can deal with that, being open and all. For some, the quest for 1 is the goal, and realization that there isn't 1 is hard to take. It doesn't help. I read a lot of me in that letter. I am 29 now. Will I make it to 30? Yes. 35? Maybe. 40? ...
- gphil 16y ago
  I'd like to respond to your assertion that "he knows that doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information." This is true, but I think that it would be possible to find a counselor that would not disclose any information, even if they were technically allowed to do so. Furthermore, it seems possible to me that such secrets could be partially disclosed to a counselor in a way in which there would be no incentive for that counselor to pass along the information to another party. Not having been in this kind of situation before, I can't imagine how horrible it would be to harbor such a secret for a lifetime, and perhaps for Bill the sheer weight of it made it impossible for him to tell anyone. But, I would just like to try to make the point that there are viable options other than keeping secrets bottled up. As for your final comment, I sincerely hope that you can find the help that you need to make it through whatever it is that is distressing you.

_pius 16y ago

Terrible, shocking news. I knew Bill in passing, as we'd talked about doing a project together. He was a very nice, very smart guy. He will be missed.

yeahsure 16y ago

A very dear friend of mine just committed suicide a month ago. He was a very intelligent guy about to become successful. I wish he would have left a note like this behind to know why he did it. I realize this comment doesn't add much value to the conversation, I'm just thinking out loud. Thanks.

savoy11 16y ago

It is a very sad story, but... well, I do not like to sound like a dick, but there are many people worse off and they manage to get by and even make other people happy. For example I do not really even had a family AT ALL. I know people that have been born disabled, etc. It is not really fair to compare abuse with that, but - problems tend to happen and we need to deal with them. Again - if this is his choice and this is how he chose to deal with that - that's fine, but this kind of public stunt at then end + dissing his family publicly is not really the best way he could have dealt with it. From his post he seems to have had deep clinical depression and while his traumatic experience in the past might have been at the root of this, this certainly does not justify 30+ years of constant depression. Literally half of the people in this world have witnessed friends die, live in pain/problems, depression - but choose to keep low profile with that. Public suicide on the internet - not cool.

basseq 16y ago

Strange to see a name on HN and think, wait, I knew someone with that name. Wait, the guy I knew went to Princeton. Wait... I never met Bill in person, but we collaborated on a couple projects and used to exchange random e-mails and IMs. He was a bright guy and I enjoyed our correspondence. His note is heartbreaking, and I hope he has finally found peace.

nickl 16y ago

I think he should have joined doctors without borders, peace corps or whatever it is called, or one of those Christian mission (even though he had a problem with Christians) . He may have found peace in helping those who suffered more then him

51Cards 16y ago
I think you missed the section of his letter stating that part of his decision was based on his internal desire to hurt others. He truly felt if unchecked his darkness would lead him to take life other than his own. His decision for him was not only a release from his torment, but a protection of others. Rest well, Bill. I never knew you directly but after this insight into who you were, I do wish I had.
tomjen3 16y ago
Do you really think most of the people doctors without borders helped suffered as much as he did?
- aik 16y ago
  I don't think any of us can honestly answer that question. Why is it even relevant what state most of the people are in.
- nickl 16y ago
  Yes.
talleyrand 16y ago
Suicide is fine, if your parents are dead, you have no children or no spouse. Have at it.

jaysonelliot 16y ago

I so wish people would write out "Rest in Peace." I know the intent is not to be disrespectful in any way, but the letters RIP just seem so inappropriate for such a serious and important sentiment.

cduruk 16y ago

I went to a boarding school in high school. Being a relatively nice school, we had campuswide wireless and and the last two years of my education there, we were also allowed to have our laptops in the dorms. So when I discovered MyTunes which allowed every single student in the dormitory to access each other's music, it was an instant hit. Pretty sure everyone with a laptop and iTunes had it installed and there was one particular time I remember the IT guys realizing the awkward amount of traffic originating around the boys' dorm. I met Bill when we interned at the same company during the summer of 2009. He was a very reserved guy, not shy or introverted --or maybe a little--. During a boring afternoon, I remember googling him and finding out that he was the who wrote MyTunes. This was then my first foray into the tech industry and right there I was chatting it up with the guy who wrote that random piece of software that became a hit at my school. It was very weird for me and I think I made it weird for Bill for a while too because I made such a big deal out of it. I'd not say we became good friends but I became someone Bill would at least come say hi when we had stuff together as interns and that made me feel special. We talked about random things several times, we had one particular fun conversation about life in CT and another about deanonymizing data from AOL search results. During that summer, Bill transformed from being a rather chubby guy to a decent looking man; I think he had put pictures of himself before and after the summer. It was kind of humbling as I was kind of trying to do the same but couldn't pull it off like he did. Once the internship was over, we became friends on Facebook and talked randomly every once in a while. Maybe a few times at best. I liked his status updates, he liked mine. Stuff like that. So few days ago, I woke up sick at 6AM (PST) and kind of involuntarily logged in to Facebook. I saw his status update which was just "Note: <link>". I clicked on it and there it was, that note. Sitting in my bed, reading the first paragraphs, I wasn't sure if this was something he wrote, something he wanted to share or some sort of random writing. It took me a few passes of the first few paragraphs to realize that this was what I thought it was. Once I realized that, I started shivering. I knew I had to do something but wasn't sure what I had to do. I saw my RA from college was online; I told him that I think I saw a suicide note on Facebook and I was calling the police. He told me that I should first call my friend but I didn't have Bill's #. So I looked up the Princeton PD's phone number and gave them a call. As soon as I mentioned "Bill Zeller", they transferred me first to a "safety official" and then to another. The gentlemen on the phone told me that "someone has found him" and they "took him down for treatment". I asked him about his condition but all he'd say was "he is receiving treatment". They took down my phone number and my name and I hung up. As a response to what I realized has happened, I sent Bill a pretty lengthy message on Facebook. I told "him" that I wasn't qualified to say anything about his pain but I would be very upset to see a man like him perish. I told him a part of the MyTunes story, probably the 10th time now. I told him that things, however shitty, might become would get better. I felt like I had to tell him that I cared. I told him to "hit me up" when he comes to SF. I think we had a brief conversation on Facebook when I posted something about moving to SF and how he'd say hi. It feels very weird that I sent that message now. No idea if anyone is going to read it. If I believed in god or after-life, I would have hoped that he'd see it. Now I saw the news, weirdly on HN before anywhere else. I read the MeFi link and all the comments here; I saw Karan's comments about how he called Princeton PD too. This is all weird to me and I have no idea why I am writing this. Some sort of self-help, I guess. I checked his Facebook account. It's bizarre, it really is. This is not the first suicide of someone I knew or the first suicide of someone on Facebook whose profile I can see. People are commenting, posting things. There are a few comments like "I hope you can pull thru", posted around the time his condition become public and then it becomes all condolences as the news of his passing is heard. It is weird to see him posting photos of a random desert he made a few days before he hung himself. I don't want to turn this into a cheesy "how technology has life and death" thing so I'll stop here. When I read the note, what stuck wasn't that he was abused but how big of a secret he had and still couldn't do anything about it. Or even more than that, how something like this ate him up from the inside, consumed him. That just makes me look at people around him and wonder. And then I feel childish, for wondering for things like that. I had a really big mistrust for most people around me, caused by a rather traumatic incident. Nothing too extraordinary, I just took it badly. I felt like everyone around me was out to get each other. I don't think I ever considered suicide but I remember thinking that I'll carry that scar for the rest of my life. I wish that Bill could get help. As others have said, there are people you can trust your secrets with, maybe not your friends but professional counselors. I cannot get myself to say "I respect his decision" as this is someone taking their life and I wish he didn't perish like this but part of me feels that at least he won't suffer the way he had been apparently. I'll take a few moments today to think about my issues, things that make me upset and will try to talk to someone about them. Maybe I'll drink a bit, talk to some friends about some of my issues, most of which are admittedly minor. I hope everyone who reads the news of Bill takes a few moments to think about their life and how they can help themselves. Maybe that way, he'll have helped others handle their problems and not do what he did.

elliottcarlson 16y ago

Without going in to many details, I understand where he is coming from. I don't have the same history as Bill did, but I have lived through a generous amount of trauma that has left me to be diagnosed with PTSD, much as it seems he was dealing with. I have seen myself in his shoes in the past, and thankfully for me I have been able to move on and share my life with someone who understands my past, and let me understand her past which has been filled with similar trauma. While it is a shame to see someone take their life, I can't help but agree that it is not selfish to commit suicide, but rather it is selfish to make someone live with the pain they are enduring. This doesn't make it OK, nor should people take that route, and at all costs should someone do their best to get the help they need - because no matter what, there is someone who can and will listen to you when it comes down to it. In the end though, don't hold it against the person if this is their ultimate decision - and think about try to remember them for the positive things that they stand for. When my best friend killed himself in front of me, I didn't know what to do, or how to react - I now understand and forgive him for everything, even though I think it could have been better for him in the long run if we had spent 15 minutes talking about his problems... My condolences to his family and friends. I wish him peace and serenity - he deserves it.

SkyMarshal 16y ago

'You may wonder why I didn't just talk to a professional about this. I've seen a number of doctors since I was a teenager to talk about other issues and I'm positive that another doctor would not have helped. I was never given one piece of actionable advice, ever.' I hate that word 'actionable'. Every time I hear it used it is with the implicit assumption that the only information of value is information that is directly 'actionable', which is completely false. There is also information that enlightens, that expands our understanding of ourselves, other people, or the world, that changes our perspective, or answers why things are the way they are, that is equally or more valuable. That kind of knowledge is not directly 'actionable', but often shows the way forward. The psychologist Milton Erickson showed that people innately know what they need to do overcome internal problems, but sometimes need an external impetus to realize and do it. Erickson found ways of providing that impetus with mirroring, indirect logic, and reframing, among others. Too bad Bill never found someone like that.

yogipatel 16y ago
Very well said, I totally agree. It's not always black and white.

chewedwire 16y ago

Wow...I knew him at Princeton in a passing sense, we were in the same computer graphics class and he advised my group for another class. He was without a doubt a brilliant guy.

michaelty 16y ago

RIP Bill. Hopefully, the pain has stopped now.

rudyadler 16y ago

Bill's family & friends have set up a Memory Page to share memories together online. http://1000Memories.com/BillZeller http://1000Memories.com/BillZeller If you knew Bill, please join his page.

VeXocide 16y ago

I'm just truly lost for words, hope he finds peace.

expressive 16y ago

This is a sad day for all programmers, and also for those who have been molested in any way. I cannot honestly understand the true pain he must have felt, but I believe his pain was unlike anything most of us can understand. What was most telling was his utter disgust for his parents, to the extent he loathed them even more than he loathed the person who molested him and caused darkness to reign over his life. And most ironic is that his parents believed abandoning him for the love of God was in their and his best interest. I am a Christian, and it sickens me what they have done because of what they believed as him not being "saved." I want to believe him, that he took his life because of the "darkness" in his life, resulting from being molested as a child. But I am still puzzled that he never spoke a word of disgust about the person who molested him. This was shocking, considering he laid into his friends who couldn't keep a secret, he mercilessly criticized his parents, yet never mention a bad word about the molester, only the "darkness." Unless, and this might be huge, the "darkness" is his father. He said his mother loves him at one point, but he never said a good word about his dad. He only criticized his father (while criticizing both parents). I am beginning to think his father is the one who molested him, considering everything in his letter. The letter was very important, because it allows the reader to carefully study and try to understand what might have caused this young man to take his own life. Though being molested caused him much trouble and "darkness" throughout his life, I believe his parents are partly to be blame for his mindful decline into frightful and terrifying non-existence. And the big secret in his letter is probably that his father molested him.

jodrellblank 16y ago

I've no business commenting on this as I haven't ever suffered a similar sort of trauma, you could argue. However I did start reading this note and found myself strongly flustered at this part: I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling. I'm annoyed at how stupid it is. And how, until recently, I wouldn't even have noticed. Let me translate to illustrate: I desperately wanted to see what was on top of that hill over there. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would find out what is at the top of the hill. But nothing I did made a dent in my knowledge Wouldn't that be silly? Wouldn't that make you wonder what he was thinking? Wouldn't you say "so go climb the hill. That's what you need to do and that's all you need to do. Forget the distractions. Go over there. Climb the hill as high as you can and keep trying every few days until you build up the fitness to get to the top". Yet you see the note of the guy and you feel sorry for him and how hard he tried to keep living and how much he struggled and what pain he was in and he missed this concept completely. If you want peace you need to work on peace and why you can't be at peace and changing yourself so you can. If you want to not be haunted you need to work on not being haunted and if you want to be happy you need to work on being happy and how you can be. Not on grad school or weight loss or gym work or anything else. Your life isn't unhappy, your thoughts are unhappy. Don't improve your life, improve your thoughts. It might not work, but the other way cannot work. If your code isn't working right, you'll never ever ever fix it by going to the gym. You will only stand any chance of fixing it if you look for the bugs in the code that isn't working and out from there. If you have been hurt and can't be happy, you need to work out how to feel happy even though you got hurt. That's it. That mental adjustment is where the bulk of your energy should be going. Learning to change it and trying repeatedly until you succeed. It's so frustrating to look at it and see him basically saying "I skirted around my problems all my life and suffered horribly, and when they didn't magically go away I decided they were completely unfixable". You can feel however you like about whatever you like. This definitely extends to feeling good even when bad things happen. Maybe not all bad things, but many. It may not extend to PTSD. What's frustrating is that he believed he was unfixable without any solid basis for that belief - without talking to a single expert, even - then made the biggest and last decision of his life based on this conclusion. It's not cowardly or morally inferior or anything like that, it's just ... a strategy that stands a low chance of helping.

abirikcham 16y ago

My perps were never caught either. I identify with a lot of the feelings he illustrated in this letter. It's bringing tears to my eyes. It is so hard to explain something as controversial as this to people who have never experienced or do not understand it, and Bill did a momentous job. Rest in peace, Bill Zeller, and I wish for a moment that I believed in some kind of afterlife, because you deserve heaven after all this hell you've been through.