5 ms·

Twitter is blocked in China, but its state news agency is buying promoted tweets

161 points by noarchy 7y ago

seppin 7y ago
Between this, and mainland Chinese protesting while living/studying abroad whereas they wouldn't have the right to do so at home, the irony is palpable.
- mattfrommars 7y ago
  You are onto something which had been bothering me yesterday. I have a Chinese room mate who yesterday showed me images/videos 'anti-protester'and exclaiming how he wanted to be part of. Note in the past and still continues to be against the Chinese government and expresses disapproval of them. I found it very odd of him to side with the anti-protestors because 'I love China and these protestors hate Chinese'. I told him, the people of Hong Kong are protesting against the Chinese government and the government does not represent the people. He further added, "people in China love the government". "If people don't like the government, they can kick them out". I told him I am pretty sure they can't because the regime is not communist but instead totalitarian. Even a month ago, he told you can't speak anything against the government even if you wanted to because of their "3 generation threat". So your comment must be part I missed in my mind, the Chinese national who sympathize with the government here in the US shouldn't be protesting at all. The government they support, it is against any type of protest and unrest. Can it be said that pro-Chinese government individuals don't really have the right no matter which type of environment they live in?
  - sverige 7y ago
    > I told him I am pretty sure they can't because the regime is not communist but instead totalitarian. Honest question: which communist government isn't / wasn't totalitarian?
    - seppin 7y ago
      Burning man? /s
  - the_resistence 7y ago
    Do not seek or expect Western style logic. They have no anchor to a reality that you and I know. They have a horrible jumble of countervailing thoughts which lead to chaos and inertia. Just the way the powers that be want it.
ausjke 7y ago
many sites are blocked too, but the government agents can access them freely all the time, ironic
- theturtletalks 7y ago
  Also ironic is China's elite reaping the benefits of democracy while oppressing their own people.
  - wtdata 7y ago
    Democracy? I think you mean Capitalism. The two things, although usually existing together, are not the same thing.
mobilio 7y ago
"Greed is good!"
- sverige 7y ago
  Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
  - kleer001 7y ago
    “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..." ~ Ralph Waldo Emmerson
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rococode 7y ago
Twitter just posted this statement: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/information_operations_directed_at_Hong_Kong.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/informati... And a new policy banning all state-controlled media from advertising: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/advertising_policies_on_state_media.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/advertisi... I think this is an interesting example of recent discussions about the disproportionate influence of social media companies on information. Obviously, it doesn't seem right for a government to manipulate public conversation. But it's also worrisome that a single company has the power to shut down an entire government trying to spread its ideas. In this instance it's well justified, but it feels a little scary that the flow of information is policed by a couple private individuals with very little oversight. I don't have any particular opinions here on what might need to change, if anything - just thinking out loud.
- ETHisso2017 7y ago
  Interesting - but many pro-HK bot accounts are still up and running. Indeed, there's a discord channel where many LIHKG (a 4chan-like HK site) users congregate to brigade Twitter and Reddit, and they've explicitly shared scripts and bots to manipulate or mass retweet messages in the channel.
- dantheman 7y ago
  How is this any different than the New York Times or the Nightly News? They control to a large extent the news people see.
  - frereubu 7y ago
    For one, social media companies are a different kind of entity in legal terms and have different legal responsibilities.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tnolet 7y ago
    These are journalistic organizations. Not tech companies selling ads. Sure, newspapers sell a ton of ads, but they tend to balance the news and the commercial sides way better and more delicate than your average SV tech corps.
Invictus0 7y ago
Many celebrities have also come out against the protests, such as Jackie Chan. I wonder if they were bought out or threatened by the government in order to do that.
- tehwebguy 7y ago
  No threats are necessary if he still has family or business in China
- ddoolin 7y ago
  I believe Chan has been openly pro-CCP/Beijing for quite some time.
- psychrometer 7y ago
  Jackie Chan has a history of defending the CCP and propagandizing for them. "Taiwan election biggest joke in the world" http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/29/content_318903.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/29/content_... https://archive.fo/QYKF https://archive.fo/QYKF "He was named official Narcotics Control Ambassador by Chinese police in 2009." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32620313 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32620313 https://archive.fo/hFrnF https://archive.fo/hFrnF "we Chinese need to be controlled" https://web.archive.org/web/20090421223810/http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_en_ot/as_china_people_jackie_chan https://web.archive.org/web/20090421223810/http://news.yahoo... https://archive.fo/pigfI https://archive.fo/pigfI "Anger after movie star tells mainland newspaper his hometown has become ‘like South Korea’ and that it should limit the right to protest" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1103899/jackie-chan-criticises-hong-kong-city-protest https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1103899/jackie-c... [Note this is about 2012 protests not 2019] "Jackie Chan back in action, branding US more corrupt than China" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-chan-back-action-branding-us-more-corrupt-china https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-c... "Parents disliked the presence of Jackie Chan in the program" https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-netizens-criticize-mandatory-propaganda-program-for-children-and-parents-on-state-media_2640059.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-netizens-criticize-man... https://archive.fo/lKp1J https://archive.fo/lKp1J "The 63-year-old Chan has aligned himself closely with the authoritarian views of the Chinese Communist Party in recent decades and is now widely seen across the Chinese-speaking world as a mouthpiece for the Beijing regime." https://www.theepochtimes.com/jackie-chan-pushes-to-outlaw-samurai-code-in-china_2464204.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/jackie-chan-pushes-to-outlaw-s... https://archive.fo/Ewked https://archive.fo/Ewked "Jackie Chan’s multilingual film Kung Fu Yoga has courted controversy for having an Indian character allegedly praise Chinese President Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI)." https://silverscreen.in/news/jackie-chans-kung-fu-yoga-pro-china-propaganda-say-critics/ https://silverscreen.in/news/jackie-chans-kung-fu-yoga-pro-c... https://archive.fo/tVsQy https://archive.fo/tVsQy
hugh4life 7y ago
"China appears to be making rapid advances in the development of Ben Garrison technology" https://twitter.com/hikikomorphism/status/1162470643360620544 https://twitter.com/hikikomorphism/status/116247064336062054...
ChuckMcM 7y ago
One could ask, "What would China do to WeChat if they showed sponsored content from the US promoting democratic reforms in HK?"
29_29 7y ago
I was recently in Beijing and noticed when posting on Instagram many bot accounts posting "Shame on Hong Kong" in Chinese. This is a Facebook problem too.
ploxiln 7y ago
I think people worry too much about these "misinformation campaigns". I think the idea behind this worry is "most people would not disagree with me unless they were brainwashed - we can't let people I disagree with do that". I'm more on the free speech side, of course. I'm definitely not a fan of the Chinese government. I like free speech, after all! But I don't really think these promoted misleading tweets are swaying the opinion of most north-americans or europeans. And I don't like this new world order where your message must align with modern liberal western ideas, in order for you to express it on a popular medium. This trend is honestly a bit scary. We're getting into orthodoxy here. Don't freak out that some people are broadcasting a message you don't agree with on a popular medium, and maybe some other people out there will be influenced by it. Growing up as a geek/nerd, I got accustomed to nobody I was around really understanding and agreeing with me. It's not the end of the world. But orthodoxy is a bit scary.
- rhizome 7y ago
  There is so much fallacious thinking here it would make me look like a pedantic doof to list them all. Suffice it to suggest that you consider accounting for the fact that there are real things actually happening outside of your mind.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

161 points by noarchy 7y ago

Between this, and mainland Chinese protesting while living/studying abroad whereas they wouldn't have the right to do so at home, the irony is palpable.

mattfrommars 7y ago
You are onto something which had been bothering me yesterday. I have a Chinese room mate who yesterday showed me images/videos 'anti-protester'and exclaiming how he wanted to be part of. Note in the past and still continues to be against the Chinese government and expresses disapproval of them. I found it very odd of him to side with the anti-protestors because 'I love China and these protestors hate Chinese'. I told him, the people of Hong Kong are protesting against the Chinese government and the government does not represent the people. He further added, "people in China love the government". "If people don't like the government, they can kick them out". I told him I am pretty sure they can't because the regime is not communist but instead totalitarian. Even a month ago, he told you can't speak anything against the government even if you wanted to because of their "3 generation threat". So your comment must be part I missed in my mind, the Chinese national who sympathize with the government here in the US shouldn't be protesting at all. The government they support, it is against any type of protest and unrest. Can it be said that pro-Chinese government individuals don't really have the right no matter which type of environment they live in?
- sverige 7y ago
  > I told him I am pretty sure they can't because the regime is not communist but instead totalitarian. Honest question: which communist government isn't / wasn't totalitarian?
  - seppin 7y ago
    Burning man? /s
- the_resistence 7y ago
  Do not seek or expect Western style logic. They have no anchor to a reality that you and I know. They have a horrible jumble of countervailing thoughts which lead to chaos and inertia. Just the way the powers that be want it.

ausjke 7y ago

many sites are blocked too, but the government agents can access them freely all the time, ironic

theturtletalks 7y ago
Also ironic is China's elite reaping the benefits of democracy while oppressing their own people.
- wtdata 7y ago
  Democracy? I think you mean Capitalism. The two things, although usually existing together, are not the same thing.

mobilio 7y ago

"Greed is good!"

sverige 7y ago
Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
- kleer001 7y ago
  “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds..." ~ Ralph Waldo Emmerson

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

rococode 7y ago

Twitter just posted this statement: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/information_operations_directed_at_Hong_Kong.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/informati... And a new policy banning all state-controlled media from advertising: https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/advertising_policies_on_state_media.html https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2019/advertisi... I think this is an interesting example of recent discussions about the disproportionate influence of social media companies on information. Obviously, it doesn't seem right for a government to manipulate public conversation. But it's also worrisome that a single company has the power to shut down an entire government trying to spread its ideas. In this instance it's well justified, but it feels a little scary that the flow of information is policed by a couple private individuals with very little oversight. I don't have any particular opinions here on what might need to change, if anything - just thinking out loud.

ETHisso2017 7y ago
Interesting - but many pro-HK bot accounts are still up and running. Indeed, there's a discord channel where many LIHKG (a 4chan-like HK site) users congregate to brigade Twitter and Reddit, and they've explicitly shared scripts and bots to manipulate or mass retweet messages in the channel.
dantheman 7y ago
How is this any different than the New York Times or the Nightly News? They control to a large extent the news people see.
- frereubu 7y ago
  For one, social media companies are a different kind of entity in legal terms and have different legal responsibilities.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tnolet 7y ago
  These are journalistic organizations. Not tech companies selling ads. Sure, newspapers sell a ton of ads, but they tend to balance the news and the commercial sides way better and more delicate than your average SV tech corps.

Invictus0 7y ago

Many celebrities have also come out against the protests, such as Jackie Chan. I wonder if they were bought out or threatened by the government in order to do that.

tehwebguy 7y ago
No threats are necessary if he still has family or business in China
ddoolin 7y ago
I believe Chan has been openly pro-CCP/Beijing for quite some time.
psychrometer 7y ago
Jackie Chan has a history of defending the CCP and propagandizing for them. "Taiwan election biggest joke in the world" http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/29/content_318903.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-03/29/content_... https://archive.fo/QYKF https://archive.fo/QYKF "He was named official Narcotics Control Ambassador by Chinese police in 2009." https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32620313 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-32620313 https://archive.fo/hFrnF https://archive.fo/hFrnF "we Chinese need to be controlled" https://web.archive.org/web/20090421223810/http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090418/ap_en_ot/as_china_people_jackie_chan https://web.archive.org/web/20090421223810/http://news.yahoo... https://archive.fo/pigfI https://archive.fo/pigfI "Anger after movie star tells mainland newspaper his hometown has become ‘like South Korea’ and that it should limit the right to protest" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1103899/jackie-chan-criticises-hong-kong-city-protest https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1103899/jackie-c... [Note this is about 2012 protests not 2019] "Jackie Chan back in action, branding US more corrupt than China" https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-chan-back-action-branding-us-more-corrupt-china https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1125813/jackie-c... "Parents disliked the presence of Jackie Chan in the program" https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-netizens-criticize-mandatory-propaganda-program-for-children-and-parents-on-state-media_2640059.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-netizens-criticize-man... https://archive.fo/lKp1J https://archive.fo/lKp1J "The 63-year-old Chan has aligned himself closely with the authoritarian views of the Chinese Communist Party in recent decades and is now widely seen across the Chinese-speaking world as a mouthpiece for the Beijing regime." https://www.theepochtimes.com/jackie-chan-pushes-to-outlaw-samurai-code-in-china_2464204.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/jackie-chan-pushes-to-outlaw-s... https://archive.fo/Ewked https://archive.fo/Ewked "Jackie Chan’s multilingual film Kung Fu Yoga has courted controversy for having an Indian character allegedly praise Chinese President Xi Jinping’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI)." https://silverscreen.in/news/jackie-chans-kung-fu-yoga-pro-china-propaganda-say-critics/ https://silverscreen.in/news/jackie-chans-kung-fu-yoga-pro-c... https://archive.fo/tVsQy https://archive.fo/tVsQy

hugh4life 7y ago

"China appears to be making rapid advances in the development of Ben Garrison technology" https://twitter.com/hikikomorphism/status/1162470643360620544 https://twitter.com/hikikomorphism/status/116247064336062054...

ChuckMcM 7y ago

One could ask, "What would China do to WeChat if they showed sponsored content from the US promoting democratic reforms in HK?"

29_29 7y ago

I was recently in Beijing and noticed when posting on Instagram many bot accounts posting "Shame on Hong Kong" in Chinese. This is a Facebook problem too.

ploxiln 7y ago

I think people worry too much about these "misinformation campaigns". I think the idea behind this worry is "most people would not disagree with me unless they were brainwashed - we can't let people I disagree with do that". I'm more on the free speech side, of course. I'm definitely not a fan of the Chinese government. I like free speech, after all! But I don't really think these promoted misleading tweets are swaying the opinion of most north-americans or europeans. And I don't like this new world order where your message must align with modern liberal western ideas, in order for you to express it on a popular medium. This trend is honestly a bit scary. We're getting into orthodoxy here. Don't freak out that some people are broadcasting a message you don't agree with on a popular medium, and maybe some other people out there will be influenced by it. Growing up as a geek/nerd, I got accustomed to nobody I was around really understanding and agreeing with me. It's not the end of the world. But orthodoxy is a bit scary.

rhizome 7y ago
There is so much fallacious thinking here it would make me look like a pedantic doof to list them all. Suffice it to suggest that you consider accounting for the fact that there are real things actually happening outside of your mind.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]