4 ms·

> The EU have offered the best they can given the UK negotiation red-lines. I think this should be: The EU have offered the best [deal they want] given the UK

by bArray 7y ago

> The EU have offered the best they can given the UK negotiation red-lines. I think this should be: The EU have offered the best [deal they want] given the UK negotiation red-lines [and the UK's lack of leverage]. The UK may have a relatively strong economy as a Country, but it's currently against the EU super state in the negotiations. The EU has most of the power when brokering a deal and this is just one small step towards making the negotiation table more even. > It's not an adversarial negotiation, it's a future partnership. Every political engagement is adversarial, there is of course common grounds, but each side wants to 'win'. The EU wants to remove all incentive for other member states to leave to safe guard its own future existence as a super state.

jashmatthews 7y ago
> The EU wants to remove all incentive for other member states to leave to safe guard its own future existence as a super state. I really disagree with that. A dysfunctional EU is worse than for the EU than countries leaving. The EU could do far more to "punish" the UK. So far they've been quite accommodating, like agreeing to keep the entire UK in the customs union for the backstop rather than splitting NI and GB.
- bArray 7y ago
  > I really disagree with that. A dysfunctional EU is worse than for the EU than countries leaving. I agree that a dysfunctional EU is something they want to avoid, but I think that's exactly why they want to prevent other Countries from leaving. A dysfunctional EU is one without lots of member states (therefore lots of power + economy). Given that member states currently have so very little individual veto control, you need to have a majority of states (or elected persons) acting in bad faith for them really to become a problem. > The EU could do far more to "punish" the UK. Maybe, but possibly not without spooking other member states. I think the UK's only saving grace is that everybody is watching very closely. > So far they've been quite accommodating, like agreeing to keep the entire UK in the customs union for the backstop rather than splitting NI and GB. If you look at the deal offered it's effectively membership without the power to vote, that sounds great from the EU's perspective, two birds with one stone.

by bArray 7y ago

jashmatthews 7y ago

> The EU wants to remove all incentive for other member states to leave to safe guard its own future existence as a super state. I really disagree with that. A dysfunctional EU is worse than for the EU than countries leaving. The EU could do far more to "punish" the UK. So far they've been quite accommodating, like agreeing to keep the entire UK in the customs union for the backstop rather than splitting NI and GB.

bArray 7y ago
> I really disagree with that. A dysfunctional EU is worse than for the EU than countries leaving. I agree that a dysfunctional EU is something they want to avoid, but I think that's exactly why they want to prevent other Countries from leaving. A dysfunctional EU is one without lots of member states (therefore lots of power + economy). Given that member states currently have so very little individual veto control, you need to have a majority of states (or elected persons) acting in bad faith for them really to become a problem. > The EU could do far more to "punish" the UK. Maybe, but possibly not without spooking other member states. I think the UK's only saving grace is that everybody is watching very closely. > So far they've been quite accommodating, like agreeing to keep the entire UK in the customs union for the backstop rather than splitting NI and GB. If you look at the deal offered it's effectively membership without the power to vote, that sounds great from the EU's perspective, two birds with one stone.