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> Holding millions of EU nationals hostage is a grossly immoral way to do that. Firstly, there will be accommodations for existing EU immigrants, read the actu

by bArray 7y ago

> Holding millions of EU nationals hostage is a grossly immoral way to do that. Firstly, there will be accommodations for existing EU immigrants, read the actual government website and not some jumped up news article [1]. Secondly, I agree holding people hostage is immoral, but you're conveniently forgetting the Irish backstop clause. > And it's not likely to be effective either. Thirdly, the idea of negotiations is that both sides have something the other side wants to negotiate about. So far negotiations have been very one-sided, with the UK wanting to continue negotiations and the EU cutting it off completely (hence May submitting the same deal three times to parliament despite demands made to change it). The idea of having a large stick is not having to using it, but sometimes it's needed to encourage the donkey to move. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-immigration-after-free-movement-ends-if-theres-no-deal/immigration-from-30-march-2019-if-there-is-no-deal https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eu-immigration-af...

pjc50 7y ago
> Irish backstop clause. What about it? This was a British government proposal in the first place. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal-not-one-tabled-by-ireland-or-the-eu-1.3761566 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was... / https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/northern-ireland-backstop https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/norther... And it doesn't hold anyone hostage, but the reverse: it guarantees freedom for people affected by the border with Ireland.
- bArray 7y ago
  > What about it? This was a British government proposal in the first place. I know the UK wanted to prevent a harder border, but I'm not sure who was specifically responsible for the final wording [1]. In my opinion one of the greatest issues was: > In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union [..] Essentially meaning that unless the UK is able to come to terms that the EU agree on, the UK could be forced to implement all laws as dictated by the EU. (Remember, the purpose of the EU was for trade, so technically that means all laws, not just those related to trade.) The only way out of this is potentially a hard border, something they really don't want either. All the EU has to do is to reject all deals offered by the UK and the UK has to remain a silent paying member state indefinitely. There is of course the point that no parliament can bind a future parliament to any agreement, but this has consequences for market stability too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_backstop#Initial_Backstop_proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_backstop#Initial_Backsto...

by bArray 7y ago

pjc50 7y ago

> Irish backstop clause. What about it? This was a British government proposal in the first place. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was-a-british-proposal-not-one-tabled-by-ireland-or-the-eu-1.3761566 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-backstop-was... / https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/northern-ireland-backstop https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/norther... And it doesn't hold anyone hostage, but the reverse: it guarantees freedom for people affected by the border with Ireland.

bArray 7y ago
> What about it? This was a British government proposal in the first place. I know the UK wanted to prevent a harder border, but I'm not sure who was specifically responsible for the final wording [1]. In my opinion one of the greatest issues was: > In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union [..] Essentially meaning that unless the UK is able to come to terms that the EU agree on, the UK could be forced to implement all laws as dictated by the EU. (Remember, the purpose of the EU was for trade, so technically that means all laws, not just those related to trade.) The only way out of this is potentially a hard border, something they really don't want either. All the EU has to do is to reject all deals offered by the UK and the UK has to remain a silent paying member state indefinitely. There is of course the point that no parliament can bind a future parliament to any agreement, but this has consequences for market stability too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_backstop#Initial_Backstop_proposal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_backstop#Initial_Backsto...