3 ms·

Actually it is a flaw in Article 50 that for some mad reasons does not cater or address - displaced nationals. I raised this issue with the EU many times in 20

by Zenst 7y ago

Actually it is a flaw in Article 50 that for some mad reasons does not cater or address - displaced nationals. I raised this issue with the EU many times in 2015 and 2016 and 2017 and .... and since, they just didn't seem to care and their current stance is that it is now on their list of something to look into. So for you to say that the UK is holding EU residents hostage is not only unfair, but very untrue.

matthewmacleod 7y ago
Article 50 has many flaws and this is one of them. I am sure this will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. It's certainly not something to look at while it's in-progress. The UK is very obviously attempting to bargain with the rights of UK-resident EU citizens. It is both totally fair and true to say so.
- majewsky 7y ago
  > I am sure [that Article 50's flaws] will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. What makes you think that? It's in the best interest of the EU administration to make leaving the EU as painful as possible.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Two sides of a coin: Heads: If leaving is an inherently good thing to do, then the EU had already failed. Tails: If the EU has not failed, leaving is inherently a bad thing to do. There is no need for the EU to do more than look after its own interests. One of those interests would, I suspect, be a treaty modification to make permanent and standard the balance-of-payment mechanism which has enraged many Leave supporters.
    - majewsky 7y ago
      Note that I said "the EU administration", not "the EU".
      - ben_w 7y ago
        I don’t understand the point of the distinction. The EU is administered by representatives from each member state, either by votes from the public or appointed by the governments of each member state.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Agreed, any change now would be futile, just irks me how the issue was fully known and raised for years prior to the UK acting A50. The UK is not obviously attempting to bargain with rights at all when they have were the first to make displaced nationals rights known whatever the outcome and the same has yet to be codified with other members as the EU has no single rule to cover them. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british-citizens-europe-after-brexit https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british...
- gpderetta 7y ago
  Article 50 is basically an acknowledgement that a state membership in the EU is solely a decision of that state and the EU cannot prevent it to leave. It is at best just a statement of principle, at worst a guarantee that a state will be bound against its will for no more than 2 years. I do not think anybody actually expected the article 50 to be triggered. I think that most expected that event of as state leaving I think the an ad-hoc solution would have been found. Instead UK immediately triggered it with no preparation. Expecting to unwind 50 years of deep entanglement in 2 years was always a delusion.

by Zenst 7y ago

matthewmacleod 7y ago

Article 50 has many flaws and this is one of them. I am sure this will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. It's certainly not something to look at while it's in-progress. The UK is very obviously attempting to bargain with the rights of UK-resident EU citizens. It is both totally fair and true to say so.

majewsky 7y ago
> I am sure [that Article 50's flaws] will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. What makes you think that? It's in the best interest of the EU administration to make leaving the EU as painful as possible.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Two sides of a coin: Heads: If leaving is an inherently good thing to do, then the EU had already failed. Tails: If the EU has not failed, leaving is inherently a bad thing to do. There is no need for the EU to do more than look after its own interests. One of those interests would, I suspect, be a treaty modification to make permanent and standard the balance-of-payment mechanism which has enraged many Leave supporters.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    Note that I said "the EU administration", not "the EU".
    - ben_w 7y ago
      I don’t understand the point of the distinction. The EU is administered by representatives from each member state, either by votes from the public or appointed by the governments of each member state.
Zenst 7y ago
Agreed, any change now would be futile, just irks me how the issue was fully known and raised for years prior to the UK acting A50. The UK is not obviously attempting to bargain with rights at all when they have were the first to make displaced nationals rights known whatever the outcome and the same has yet to be codified with other members as the EU has no single rule to cover them. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british-citizens-europe-after-brexit https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/british...
gpderetta 7y ago
Article 50 is basically an acknowledgement that a state membership in the EU is solely a decision of that state and the EU cannot prevent it to leave. It is at best just a statement of principle, at worst a guarantee that a state will be bound against its will for no more than 2 years. I do not think anybody actually expected the article 50 to be triggered. I think that most expected that event of as state leaving I think the an ad-hoc solution would have been found. Instead UK immediately triggered it with no preparation. Expecting to unwind 50 years of deep entanglement in 2 years was always a delusion.