7 ms·

Maybe chaos is what the UK government is aiming at this point. They are using EU residents as hostage to get what they want, not sure what that might be though.

raverbashing 7y ago
Edit: bad information, I stand corrected
- pjc50 7y ago
  Yeah, this is the other unacnowledged problem. There's a lot of retired Brits in Spain that might find themselves vulnerable to retaliation if the UK starts deporting Spanish nationals.
- Zenst 7y ago
  Untrue - there are 1.3m UK nationals living in the EU and about 3.7m EU nationals living in the UK. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/datasets/populationoftheunitedkingdombycountryofbirthandnationality https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/ https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-...
  - raverbashing 7y ago
    Thanks, I had found a different older source but the numbers are similar https://www.pewresearch.org/global/interactives/origins-destinations-of-european-union-migrants-within-the-eu/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/interactives/origins-dest... Still it's a non-negligible number
- majewsky 7y ago
  When you amend your post, can you please leave the original text there as well? As it is now, it's hard to follow the discussion.
Zenst 7y ago
Actually it is a flaw in Article 50 that for some mad reasons does not cater or address - displaced nationals. I raised this issue with the EU many times in 2015 and 2016 and 2017 and .... and since, they just didn't seem to care and their current stance is that it is now on their list of something to look into. So for you to say that the UK is holding EU residents hostage is not only unfair, but very untrue.
- matthewmacleod 7y ago
  Article 50 has many flaws and this is one of them. I am sure this will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. It's certainly not something to look at while it's in-progress. The UK is very obviously attempting to bargain with the rights of UK-resident EU citizens. It is both totally fair and true to say so.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    > I am sure [that Article 50's flaws] will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. What makes you think that? It's in the best interest of the EU administration to make leaving the EU as painful as possible.
    - ben_w 7y ago
      Two sides of a coin: Heads: If leaving is an inherently good thing to do, then the EU had already failed. Tails: If the EU has not failed, leaving is inherently a bad thing to do. There is no need for the EU to do more than look after its own interests. One of those interests would, I suspect, be a treaty modification to make permanent and standard the balance-of-payment mechanism which has enraged many Leave supporters.
      - majewsky 7y ago
        Note that I said "the EU administration", not "the EU".
gambiting 7y ago
>> They are using EU residents as hostage to get what they want, not sure what that might be though I mean, clearly the government's policy of threatening the EU with a no-deal brexit is just not working, so the next stop is using EU citizens as bargaining chips(I remember saying this 3 years ago, that we will end up being used for exactly this purpose once the time comes. I don't know whether I should start packing my bags now or later, the anxiety level is just through he roof at the moment).

raverbashing 7y ago

Edit: bad information, I stand corrected

pjc50 7y ago
Yeah, this is the other unacnowledged problem. There's a lot of retired Brits in Spain that might find themselves vulnerable to retaliation if the UK starts deporting Spanish nationals.
Zenst 7y ago
Untrue - there are 1.3m UK nationals living in the EU and about 3.7m EU nationals living in the UK. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/datasets/populationoftheunitedkingdombycountryofbirthandnationality https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populati... https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-eu-countries/ https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-uk-citizens-live-other-...
- raverbashing 7y ago
  Thanks, I had found a different older source but the numbers are similar https://www.pewresearch.org/global/interactives/origins-destinations-of-european-union-migrants-within-the-eu/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/interactives/origins-dest... Still it's a non-negligible number
majewsky 7y ago
When you amend your post, can you please leave the original text there as well? As it is now, it's hard to follow the discussion.

Zenst 7y ago

Actually it is a flaw in Article 50 that for some mad reasons does not cater or address - displaced nationals. I raised this issue with the EU many times in 2015 and 2016 and 2017 and .... and since, they just didn't seem to care and their current stance is that it is now on their list of something to look into. So for you to say that the UK is holding EU residents hostage is not only unfair, but very untrue.

matthewmacleod 7y ago
Article 50 has many flaws and this is one of them. I am sure this will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. It's certainly not something to look at while it's in-progress. The UK is very obviously attempting to bargain with the rights of UK-resident EU citizens. It is both totally fair and true to say so.
- majewsky 7y ago
  > I am sure [that Article 50's flaws] will be revised through treaty change in due course, after Brexit is over. What makes you think that? It's in the best interest of the EU administration to make leaving the EU as painful as possible.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Two sides of a coin: Heads: If leaving is an inherently good thing to do, then the EU had already failed. Tails: If the EU has not failed, leaving is inherently a bad thing to do. There is no need for the EU to do more than look after its own interests. One of those interests would, I suspect, be a treaty modification to make permanent and standard the balance-of-payment mechanism which has enraged many Leave supporters.
    - majewsky 7y ago
      Note that I said "the EU administration", not "the EU".

gambiting 7y ago

>> They are using EU residents as hostage to get what they want, not sure what that might be though I mean, clearly the government's policy of threatening the EU with a no-deal brexit is just not working, so the next stop is using EU citizens as bargaining chips(I remember saying this 3 years ago, that we will end up being used for exactly this purpose once the time comes. I don't know whether I should start packing my bags now or later, the anxiety level is just through he roof at the moment).