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As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (wh

by rlpb 7y ago

As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (when I'll want heating). That would limit me to driving only 50 miles from my home without having to alter my plans around charging, and I would want to add some contingency so perhaps that'd end up being 30 miles in practice. Feel free to tell me that I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's how our consumer-hostile marketing culture (in general and not specifically the EV industry) has taught me to be. Rapid battery degradation in typical consumer devices also influences my impression. Perhaps regularly replacing/refurbishing batteries would help with this. How would this affect the TCO when compared to a gasoline car? I don't know. What's the resale value of an old EV likely to be given the rapid development in the newest models, and how will that affect the TCO? Again, I don't know.

magicalhippo 7y ago
My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10 km range left, when I finally got to a charger. This was with two passengers, both front seat heaters on, as well as the cabin heater working hard. If we assume the estimated range left is somewhat accurate, that's about 63% the typical summer range of about 230 km. Had I preheated the batteries it would have been better, though I don't have any numbers. Resale value is something I worry about too. That's part of the reason I went with an i3 rather than a more expensive Model 3. Though at least here in Norway, I expect EVs to be dominating soon, and with the price of gas I expect ICE resale value will take a hit.
- rlpb 7y ago
  Thank you for writing that up. It is useful to consider a real-world scenario from an existing EV owner that has some real data. > Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. I got to 50% by combining reduced range from an old battery with reduced range from winter use. > about 63% So 80% (your battery warranty minimum) of 63% is 50.4%, so was my 50% guess spot on then, or have I missed something?
  - magicalhippo 7y ago
    > so was my 50% guess spot on then Yeah I misread your text slightly.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- magicalhippo 7y ago
  I forgot to mention that it was a round-trip with an ~5 hour stop in the middle, which cooled the car down to well below freezing. So yea, really non-ideal, but these things happen so should be taken into account.
mikeash 7y ago
For what it’s worth, my 4.5 year old Model S has lost less than 2% of its original range. You can’t compare with cheap electronic gadgets. Those push their batteries hard and do nothing to manage their temperature. Some EVs are similarly stupid; the Leaf, for example, is notorious for losing capacity fast. But good EVs will last much longer.

by rlpb 7y ago

magicalhippo 7y ago

My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10 km range left, when I finally got to a charger. This was with two passengers, both front seat heaters on, as well as the cabin heater working hard. If we assume the estimated range left is somewhat accurate, that's about 63% the typical summer range of about 230 km. Had I preheated the batteries it would have been better, though I don't have any numbers. Resale value is something I worry about too. That's part of the reason I went with an i3 rather than a more expensive Model 3. Though at least here in Norway, I expect EVs to be dominating soon, and with the price of gas I expect ICE resale value will take a hit.

rlpb 7y ago
Thank you for writing that up. It is useful to consider a real-world scenario from an existing EV owner that has some real data. > Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. I got to 50% by combining reduced range from an old battery with reduced range from winter use. > about 63% So 80% (your battery warranty minimum) of 63% is 50.4%, so was my 50% guess spot on then, or have I missed something?
- magicalhippo 7y ago
  > so was my 50% guess spot on then Yeah I misread your text slightly.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
magicalhippo 7y ago
I forgot to mention that it was a round-trip with an ~5 hour stop in the middle, which cooled the car down to well below freezing. So yea, really non-ideal, but these things happen so should be taken into account.

mikeash 7y ago

For what it’s worth, my 4.5 year old Model S has lost less than 2% of its original range. You can’t compare with cheap electronic gadgets. Those push their batteries hard and do nothing to manage their temperature. Some EVs are similarly stupid; the Leaf, for example, is notorious for losing capacity fast. But good EVs will last much longer.