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I'm fine with much of that, but only after someone proves that they deserve it. To me, these seem more like rewards or perks than initial offerings. As an empl
by nhangen 16y ago
I'm fine with much of that, but only after someone proves that they deserve it. To me, these seem more like rewards or perks than initial offerings.
As an employer, if someone comes in to my office with those requirements, they need to show me that they can produce...otherwise, we're not starting off on the right foot.
Can you imagine someone in any other field asking for the same? They would be laughed out of the building. I'm not saying that makes it right or wrong...but it's certainly interesting.
I guess my point, and what's most important to me, is not the tally of hours worked, but someone's willingness to buy in to our product, and more importantly, their ability to recognize the difference between getting by and getting things done. Team goes both ways.
- sp4rki 16y agoAhh but those are perks indeed. The thing is, if a developer is mediocre with the perks in place, you take them away. If he's still mediocre, you let him go. He was a mediocre employee however you see it. Here's the catch. To make sure you have an employee that feels empowered, challenged, and engaged you need to offer this perks beforehand. If you don't they're just going to feel as a regular employee. Unimportant and replaceable. Developers don't look at themselves as grunt workers after they've acquired significant experience (enough experience to expect these kind of perks), but as management/executive material who would rather program than do whatever management tasks he'd do if he was a manager. Managers and executives are the dudes that won't get a ton of flak for coming in later in the day or for taking an hour and a half of lunch instead of just one. I'll be honest, I've worked as the general manager of an outsource development company and I found the job generally lackluster and not as challenging as coding, therefore I prefer to code. The fact that I find a general manager's job easier than coding make's me want to have similar perks, and I bet I'm not the only one out there that thinks like this.
- j_baker 16y agoThat's interesting because I don't put in hard work until my employer proves they deserve it. Someone has to make the first move. Do you see the dilemma here?
- nhangen 16y agoSo you're saying a good salary is not enough to merit good work in return?
- j_baker 16y agoThat's exactly what I'm saying. Money only gets you so far, and first impressions are hard to break. To really make me give my all, I need to work some place where I'm valued and not some cog in a machine. If my first impression is that you view me as a machine that you put money in one end and code comes out the other, then you'll have to work twice as hard to get rid of that impression once I've proven myself to you (assuming I stick around long enough to prove myself to you).
- nhangen 16y agoSo what's value? Respect in communication and expectations or letting you run the show?
- j_baker 16y agoI didn't say anything that alluded to me (or any other employee) wanting to run the show. Are you really attempting to get the most out of the employee-employer relationship or are you trying to put down threats to your authority?
- nhangen 16y agoNo, this isn't about authority at all, at least for me. I just got the impression that you were sort of drawing a line in the sand, and I was trying to ascertain why. I'd still love more insight.
- sp4rki 16y agoThat's exactly the point. If you're willing to pay a dev 100k without the perks, what makes you think that a company that really wants great talent won't pay the 100k plus the perks. You make it seem like employees have to earn respect, but that's just a recipe for disgruntled employees. Employees want respect, and they should have it from the start. That being said, respect is something that can (and should) be lost when mediocrity creeps in.