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i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.

by tyfon 7y ago

marvin 7y ago
You’re saying it’s comprable to 3 in size and features, but S&X in price? I really don’t intend to be snarky, but I haven’t seen it, and this would be the implication if what you say is correct.
- michaelt 7y ago
  Wikipedia calls the Model X, I-Pace and Model 3 "Mid-size luxury crossover SUV", "Compact luxury crossover SUV" and "Compact executive car" respectively. The I-Pace has 8% less length, 8% less height, and 12% less weight than the Model X 90D. The widths are comparable. The I-Pace has 9% more width, 9% more height, and 15% more weight than the Model 3 Range AWD. The lengths are comparable. I would say this puts the I-Pace half way between the Model X and the Model 3 in terms of size. In terms of class, I'd say the I-Pace is closer to the Model X, both being luxury crossover SUVs. More broadly, Jaguar is a historically British company, and Britain's roads and parking spaces are narrower than those in the US, so the truck and full-size SUV classes are much less popular.
  - jaxn 7y ago
    So the accurate comparison is the i-Pace and the Model Y. Jaguar beat Tesla to market by 12-18 months in the segment. Will be interesting to see if they can capitalize on the head start.
    - mikeash 7y ago
      It compares to the Model Y in size but to the Model X on price. This doesn’t seem like a winning combination. Edit: that’s a bit too glib. I’m sure it’ll do just fine as a niche product for a certain group of buyers, which is what Jaguar is all about. It’s just not really competing with Tesla, which is trying hard to go after the mass market.
      - greedo 7y ago
        Based on sales, I still consider Tesla a niche. The Camry sells about 3x the Model 3. When you compare the M3/S to all of Nissan/Toyota/Honda/Kia/Hyundai/Mazda/Acura/Infinity/BMW/MB/VW-Audi sales in the US, it's a drop in the bucket. And that's just "imported" cars. Add US automakers and it drops even further. EDIT- Forgot about Honda and the Korean car makers too.
        mikeash 7y ago
        Sure, the difference is that Tesla is aggressively expanding (sales have been increasing around 100% per year for the past few years) while Jaguar has its niche and is happy to stay there. The I-PACE can sell significantly fewer units than the Model Y (and almost certainly will) while still being successful. And conversely, Tesla sales matching Jaguar’s in the long term would spell doom for Tesla.
        marvin 7y ago
        Model 3 was the 4th top selling car in the USA when measured by revenue, for 2018 as a whole, assuming this CleanTechnica article managed to estimate the average selling price to reasonable accuracy in January this year. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/28/tesla-model-3-1-best-selling-car-in-usa-in-terms-of-revenue-4th-quarter-2018/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/28/tesla-model-3-1-best-se... That's certainly not a drop in the bucket, and I think it's a stretch to call it niche as well. Will be interesting to see how 2019 as a whole turns out; with this ASP, they would dominate by revenue if their delivery numbers were anywhere close to the competition.
        jaxn 7y ago
        Every disruptive product started out niche. Nokia used to sell way more phones than anyone else too.
- pwagland 7y ago
  This is indeed what many people say. If you sit in in an i-Pace and a model 3, you wouldn't say that they are competition for each other any more than a Ford Focus is competition to a BMW 2-series, they are similar sizes, but very different trims and technology choices. The i-Pace has many options that the 3 doesn't (HUD, matriculates headlights, etc) and the 3 has arguably better self-driving tech, and over the air updates. Most Tesla fans only count positive things for the 3 though, and so consider the i-Pace and the model 3 direct competition.
- tyfon 7y ago
  Well, model 3 is maybe a bit smaller but they are both more like sporty sedans than the model x. Your comment might also be why the model 3 is selling like hot-cakes at the moment. The model 3 is also very efficient compared to the i-pace and charges faster. One sentiment that might be true regarding what you value in your car is that the model 3 is a better EV and the i-pace is a better car. As for size, I recently got to compare my model x to my cousins i-pace and the internal size difference is quite substantial. The i-pace is however a very fun car to drive and it doesn't require that you go full 17" screen and strip the physical buttons. Some people value that too.

i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.

by tyfon 7y ago

i-pace is actually more comparable to model 3 than model S and X. It has about the same power and internal space, model x is _much_ bigger.

marvin 7y ago

You’re saying it’s comprable to 3 in size and features, but S&X in price? I really don’t intend to be snarky, but I haven’t seen it, and this would be the implication if what you say is correct.

michaelt 7y ago
Wikipedia calls the Model X, I-Pace and Model 3 "Mid-size luxury crossover SUV", "Compact luxury crossover SUV" and "Compact executive car" respectively. The I-Pace has 8% less length, 8% less height, and 12% less weight than the Model X 90D. The widths are comparable. The I-Pace has 9% more width, 9% more height, and 15% more weight than the Model 3 Range AWD. The lengths are comparable. I would say this puts the I-Pace half way between the Model X and the Model 3 in terms of size. In terms of class, I'd say the I-Pace is closer to the Model X, both being luxury crossover SUVs. More broadly, Jaguar is a historically British company, and Britain's roads and parking spaces are narrower than those in the US, so the truck and full-size SUV classes are much less popular.
- jaxn 7y ago
  So the accurate comparison is the i-Pace and the Model Y. Jaguar beat Tesla to market by 12-18 months in the segment. Will be interesting to see if they can capitalize on the head start.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    It compares to the Model Y in size but to the Model X on price. This doesn’t seem like a winning combination. Edit: that’s a bit too glib. I’m sure it’ll do just fine as a niche product for a certain group of buyers, which is what Jaguar is all about. It’s just not really competing with Tesla, which is trying hard to go after the mass market.
    - greedo 7y ago
      Based on sales, I still consider Tesla a niche. The Camry sells about 3x the Model 3. When you compare the M3/S to all of Nissan/Toyota/Honda/Kia/Hyundai/Mazda/Acura/Infinity/BMW/MB/VW-Audi sales in the US, it's a drop in the bucket. And that's just "imported" cars. Add US automakers and it drops even further. EDIT- Forgot about Honda and the Korean car makers too.
      - mikeash 7y ago
        Sure, the difference is that Tesla is aggressively expanding (sales have been increasing around 100% per year for the past few years) while Jaguar has its niche and is happy to stay there. The I-PACE can sell significantly fewer units than the Model Y (and almost certainly will) while still being successful. And conversely, Tesla sales matching Jaguar’s in the long term would spell doom for Tesla.
      - marvin 7y ago
        Model 3 was the 4th top selling car in the USA when measured by revenue, for 2018 as a whole, assuming this CleanTechnica article managed to estimate the average selling price to reasonable accuracy in January this year. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/28/tesla-model-3-1-best-selling-car-in-usa-in-terms-of-revenue-4th-quarter-2018/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/28/tesla-model-3-1-best-se... That's certainly not a drop in the bucket, and I think it's a stretch to call it niche as well. Will be interesting to see how 2019 as a whole turns out; with this ASP, they would dominate by revenue if their delivery numbers were anywhere close to the competition.
      - jaxn 7y ago
        Every disruptive product started out niche. Nokia used to sell way more phones than anyone else too.
pwagland 7y ago
This is indeed what many people say. If you sit in in an i-Pace and a model 3, you wouldn't say that they are competition for each other any more than a Ford Focus is competition to a BMW 2-series, they are similar sizes, but very different trims and technology choices. The i-Pace has many options that the 3 doesn't (HUD, matriculates headlights, etc) and the 3 has arguably better self-driving tech, and over the air updates. Most Tesla fans only count positive things for the 3 though, and so consider the i-Pace and the model 3 direct competition.
tyfon 7y ago
Well, model 3 is maybe a bit smaller but they are both more like sporty sedans than the model x. Your comment might also be why the model 3 is selling like hot-cakes at the moment. The model 3 is also very efficient compared to the i-pace and charges faster. One sentiment that might be true regarding what you value in your car is that the model 3 is a better EV and the i-pace is a better car. As for size, I recently got to compare my model x to my cousins i-pace and the internal size difference is quite substantial. The i-pace is however a very fun car to drive and it doesn't require that you go full 17" screen and strip the physical buttons. Some people value that too.