7 ms·

Range anxiety is definitely a thing, especially if you've never driven an EV and have heard it exists. The issue is a non-issue for most Tesla buyers who have h

by gibolt 7y ago

Range anxiety is definitely a thing, especially if you've never driven an EV and have heard it exists. The issue is a non-issue for most Tesla buyers who have home charging. The situation will hopefully resolve itself unquestionably in the next 2-3 years.

onion2k 7y ago
Home charging isn't an option for a lot of people who don't have a garage or a driveway. We're going to see a lot of "electric petrol stations" being built very soon - it's already happening... https://fastnedcharging.com/en https://fastnedcharging.com/en
- taneq 7y ago
  The Supercharger network is already an "electric petrol station" network and it's pretty comprehensive in many parts of the world. Edit: Also it's notably cheaper than the one you linked, generally below $0.20/kWh according to https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-tiered-pricing-structure/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-tiered-pricing-... compared with $0.35/kWh
  - onion2k 7y ago
    I live in Sunderland in the North East of the UK. There is a Supercharger near where I live, but beyond that it's quite sparse - https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?search=supercharger&name=Europe&place=berwickuksupercharger https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?se... I'd be a bit apprehensive about relying on Superchargers alone if I had a Tesla (not that there's any chance of me owning one ever, I don't earn nearly enough).
  - icelancer 7y ago
    The Supercharger network is not going to be a major thing anytime soon in Seattle where we have very cheap hydroelectric power (10c/kWh or less, hence why solar adoption here sucks [the weather isn't helping much either though it's less bad than people think]) and a packed city with terribly expensive real estate that makes it uneconomical for Tesla to build out massively in the city (plus our geography is stupid, look at the giant body of water splitting our city in two). The Supercharger network will be used - and is currently used - to bridge longer commutes fast. Not for intra-city deployment; at least not at the moment.
  - greedo 7y ago
    Tesla considers having a single Supercharger stations as comprehensive? My city has one. A city of 300K + people. We have over 100 gas stations. Superchargers are a nice premium during the early adoption period but as the number of owners rise, its utility drops. Unless Tesla plans on increasing the number of stations by a magnitude, it won't be more than PR.
rlpb 7y ago
As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (when I'll want heating). That would limit me to driving only 50 miles from my home without having to alter my plans around charging, and I would want to add some contingency so perhaps that'd end up being 30 miles in practice. Feel free to tell me that I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's how our consumer-hostile marketing culture (in general and not specifically the EV industry) has taught me to be. Rapid battery degradation in typical consumer devices also influences my impression. Perhaps regularly replacing/refurbishing batteries would help with this. How would this affect the TCO when compared to a gasoline car? I don't know. What's the resale value of an old EV likely to be given the rapid development in the newest models, and how will that affect the TCO? Again, I don't know.
- magicalhippo 7y ago
  My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10 km range left, when I finally got to a charger. This was with two passengers, both front seat heaters on, as well as the cabin heater working hard. If we assume the estimated range left is somewhat accurate, that's about 63% the typical summer range of about 230 km. Had I preheated the batteries it would have been better, though I don't have any numbers. Resale value is something I worry about too. That's part of the reason I went with an i3 rather than a more expensive Model 3. Though at least here in Norway, I expect EVs to be dominating soon, and with the price of gas I expect ICE resale value will take a hit.
  - rlpb 7y ago
    Thank you for writing that up. It is useful to consider a real-world scenario from an existing EV owner that has some real data. > Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. I got to 50% by combining reduced range from an old battery with reduced range from winter use. > about 63% So 80% (your battery warranty minimum) of 63% is 50.4%, so was my 50% guess spot on then, or have I missed something?

by gibolt 7y ago

onion2k 7y ago

Home charging isn't an option for a lot of people who don't have a garage or a driveway. We're going to see a lot of "electric petrol stations" being built very soon - it's already happening... https://fastnedcharging.com/en https://fastnedcharging.com/en

taneq 7y ago
The Supercharger network is already an "electric petrol station" network and it's pretty comprehensive in many parts of the world. Edit: Also it's notably cheaper than the one you linked, generally below $0.20/kWh according to https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-tiered-pricing-structure/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-supercharger-tiered-pricing-... compared with $0.35/kWh
- onion2k 7y ago
  I live in Sunderland in the North East of the UK. There is a Supercharger near where I live, but beyond that it's quite sparse - https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?search=supercharger&name=Europe&place=berwickuksupercharger https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65,55,34,-11,d?se... I'd be a bit apprehensive about relying on Superchargers alone if I had a Tesla (not that there's any chance of me owning one ever, I don't earn nearly enough).
- icelancer 7y ago
  The Supercharger network is not going to be a major thing anytime soon in Seattle where we have very cheap hydroelectric power (10c/kWh or less, hence why solar adoption here sucks [the weather isn't helping much either though it's less bad than people think]) and a packed city with terribly expensive real estate that makes it uneconomical for Tesla to build out massively in the city (plus our geography is stupid, look at the giant body of water splitting our city in two). The Supercharger network will be used - and is currently used - to bridge longer commutes fast. Not for intra-city deployment; at least not at the moment.
- greedo 7y ago
  Tesla considers having a single Supercharger stations as comprehensive? My city has one. A city of 300K + people. We have over 100 gas stations. Superchargers are a nice premium during the early adoption period but as the number of owners rise, its utility drops. Unless Tesla plans on increasing the number of stations by a magnitude, it won't be more than PR.

rlpb 7y ago

As a potential EV buyer, what concerns me is that a quoted 200 mile range sounds more like a 100 mile range after five years (so an older battery) in winter (when I'll want heating). That would limit me to driving only 50 miles from my home without having to alter my plans around charging, and I would want to add some contingency so perhaps that'd end up being 30 miles in practice. Feel free to tell me that I'm being overly pessimistic, but that's how our consumer-hostile marketing culture (in general and not specifically the EV industry) has taught me to be. Rapid battery degradation in typical consumer devices also influences my impression. Perhaps regularly replacing/refurbishing batteries would help with this. How would this affect the TCO when compared to a gasoline car? I don't know. What's the resale value of an old EV likely to be given the rapid development in the newest models, and how will that affect the TCO? Again, I don't know.

magicalhippo 7y ago
My BMW i3 has an 8 year 80% battery warranty. Tesla does very well with their battery management. Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. Yes, winter will reduce range. I had a worst-case trip this year, it was around -18 C outside and I had not had a chance to pre-heat the batteries. Car was 99% charged, showing 200 km range initially. After some 135 km the car showed about 10 km range left, when I finally got to a charger. This was with two passengers, both front seat heaters on, as well as the cabin heater working hard. If we assume the estimated range left is somewhat accurate, that's about 63% the typical summer range of about 230 km. Had I preheated the batteries it would have been better, though I don't have any numbers. Resale value is something I worry about too. That's part of the reason I went with an i3 rather than a more expensive Model 3. Though at least here in Norway, I expect EVs to be dominating soon, and with the price of gas I expect ICE resale value will take a hit.
- rlpb 7y ago
  Thank you for writing that up. It is useful to consider a real-world scenario from an existing EV owner that has some real data. > Leaf is not so great, but far from 50% at 5 years unless you mistreat it AFAIK. I got to 50% by combining reduced range from an old battery with reduced range from winter use. > about 63% So 80% (your battery warranty minimum) of 63% is 50.4%, so was my 50% guess spot on then, or have I missed something?