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I really don't think so. Plastics are used because they solve a lot of very real problems for the amount they cost to produce. That's a good thing. The vast

I really don't think so. Plastics are used because they solve a lot of very real problems for the amount they cost to produce. That's a good thing. The vast majority of the plastic waste in the environment comes from rivers that flow through countries that lack even basic sanitation/garbage collection facilities. A plastic bottle floating down a river has a real potential environmental impact. A plastic bottle sitting in a landfill isn't hurting anything, and isn't going to. Investing in waste management infrastructure in these communities would essentially solve the plastics problem, even if nothing else was changed. It is, unfortunately, not very exciting to talk about civil waste management infrastructure as the way forward, but it doesn't stop it from being the correct answer.

azinman2 7y ago
They’ll still exist for a long time, and will be eaten by birds, etc, even in a landfill. Managing AND reducing waste needs to happen simultaneously.
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  Plastics that sit undisturbed in the earth are a form of carbon sequestration. That is not a bad thing, as long as they are concentrated in a known place. Landfills are lot more complex than just dumping trash in a pit. https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/swfacilities/landfills/needfor#EnsureSafety https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/swfacilities/landfills/needfor... may be of interest. The tl;dr is that properly-managed ones genuinely are a safe form of waste disposal.
  - abathur 7y ago
    Well-designed landfills are probably better than loading plastic into confetti cannons, but calling anything in a man-engineered landfill "undisturbed in the earth" is a stretch. Plastics sitting in our landfills are, at human timescales, sitting relatively undisturbed on the outer skin of this world, where they are probably a teensy bit less "sequestered" than they were several thousand feet into the crust. At anything approaching geologic time, some fraction of these feats of engineering will be graciously buried by layer upon layer of new sediments; others will be sundered by the same forces that flatten mountain-ranges and carve canyons, their contents re-circulated through nature's supply chains.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  What about burning them?
  - azinman2 7y ago
    And then we pollute the air?
    - im3w1l 7y ago
      I believe you can use catalysts and filters to get reasonably clean exhaust.
      - azinman2 7y ago
        How clean is 'reasonably' clean? Given so many parts of the world throw trash into rivers which is one of the main ways we get so much plastic in the ocean, this seems extremely wishful. Seems like if we could avoid plastic in the first place, or have all plastic be biodegradable in a short time period, we'd be far better off.
01100011 7y ago
I want to agree with you, because I am generally pro-technology and pro-plastic. On many levels, plastics are one of the most amazing inventions of the last century. On the other hand, we're seeing more and more particulate pollution from plastics which won't be solved by adequate disposal. Some plastic products break down and end up in the environment while they are still in use(see plastic clothing fibers for example).
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  You raise a good point, and I want to be clear, I fully understand that everything involves tradeoffs. Synthetic fibers from washing fleece blankets and clothing are a major source of plastic pollution. With current sewage treatment systems, some of this waste is caught, but not enough. Having cleanable filters on a washing machine's discharge water would be an inexpensive, easy fix, but as far as I know, none currently exist in the consumer space. But before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, we also have to remember that synthetic clothing keeps people clothed and warm for less environmental impact than most natural fibers- cotton is a resource-intensive crop that has its own waste and pesticide problems, for example. There are a lot of optimizations to be made.
tedunangst 7y ago
You don't think asbestos solved real problems?

azinman2 7y ago

They’ll still exist for a long time, and will be eaten by birds, etc, even in a landfill. Managing AND reducing waste needs to happen simultaneously.

Baeocystin 7y ago
Plastics that sit undisturbed in the earth are a form of carbon sequestration. That is not a bad thing, as long as they are concentrated in a known place. Landfills are lot more complex than just dumping trash in a pit. https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/swfacilities/landfills/needfor#EnsureSafety https://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/swfacilities/landfills/needfor... may be of interest. The tl;dr is that properly-managed ones genuinely are a safe form of waste disposal.
- abathur 7y ago
  Well-designed landfills are probably better than loading plastic into confetti cannons, but calling anything in a man-engineered landfill "undisturbed in the earth" is a stretch. Plastics sitting in our landfills are, at human timescales, sitting relatively undisturbed on the outer skin of this world, where they are probably a teensy bit less "sequestered" than they were several thousand feet into the crust. At anything approaching geologic time, some fraction of these feats of engineering will be graciously buried by layer upon layer of new sediments; others will be sundered by the same forces that flatten mountain-ranges and carve canyons, their contents re-circulated through nature's supply chains.
im3w1l 7y ago
What about burning them?
- azinman2 7y ago
  And then we pollute the air?
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    I believe you can use catalysts and filters to get reasonably clean exhaust.
    - azinman2 7y ago
      How clean is 'reasonably' clean? Given so many parts of the world throw trash into rivers which is one of the main ways we get so much plastic in the ocean, this seems extremely wishful. Seems like if we could avoid plastic in the first place, or have all plastic be biodegradable in a short time period, we'd be far better off.

01100011 7y ago

I want to agree with you, because I am generally pro-technology and pro-plastic. On many levels, plastics are one of the most amazing inventions of the last century. On the other hand, we're seeing more and more particulate pollution from plastics which won't be solved by adequate disposal. Some plastic products break down and end up in the environment while they are still in use(see plastic clothing fibers for example).

Baeocystin 7y ago
You raise a good point, and I want to be clear, I fully understand that everything involves tradeoffs. Synthetic fibers from washing fleece blankets and clothing are a major source of plastic pollution. With current sewage treatment systems, some of this waste is caught, but not enough. Having cleanable filters on a washing machine's discharge water would be an inexpensive, easy fix, but as far as I know, none currently exist in the consumer space. But before we throw the baby out with the bathwater, we also have to remember that synthetic clothing keeps people clothed and warm for less environmental impact than most natural fibers- cotton is a resource-intensive crop that has its own waste and pesticide problems, for example. There are a lot of optimizations to be made.

tedunangst 7y ago

You don't think asbestos solved real problems?