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Totally false. And using fear in politics is nothing new. The US now has tariffs on Canada because of the "risk" Canada poses to national security. The idea th

Totally false. And using fear in politics is nothing new. The US now has tariffs on Canada because of the "risk" Canada poses to national security. The idea that the UK crumbles (the document has things like cancer patients dying, folks with diabetes dying - its just an incredible list) seems far fetched. The UK operated prior to the EU without all these disasters.

pmlnr 7y ago
Go and talk to your elders about pre 1970 UK. I did. Regular 3 day power outages were common as a start.
alkonaut 7y ago
> The UK operated prior to the EU without all these disasters. This is true. But what’s discussed is how difficult it is to untangle 40 years of ever tighter integration. Decades ago things weren’t made in british factories using parts delivered just in time to be assembled, from multiple European supplier factories. No one is arguing that it’s impossible for Britain to function outside the EU. But “it worked before” isn’t an argument that leaving won’t be a disaster. Taking the same argument ad absurdum: Britain used to operate without electricity and cars. Now there is a hundred years of electricity and cars integrated into every corner of British society so if cars and electricity was suddenly removed, it would take a long time for Britain to adapt to the new old system of candles and horses. It would work (it has operated that way before) but it would be a disaster for quite some time. An initial shortage of horses and candles wouldn’t be the only problem.
jashmatthews 7y ago
> folks with diabetes dying Back in 1975 things were very different. We didn't have recombinant insulin and diabetics died much more often. It's not like we can flip a switch and go back to 1975, but keeping everything from 2019 running.
renaudg 7y ago
This is like saying it's easy to refactor a huge codebase to strip a critical software component from it overnight, because 40 years ago you used to have a standalone version that didn't require it.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Actually - if I can get totally illegal drugs in the UK, I suspect that if market forces work the same way for legal drugs as they do for illegal, folks who face death without their drugs will find a way to get supply of those drugs. And it will be totally appalling if the EU to prove a point blocks shipments of those drugs. This is a chance for the US perhaps to get in with some timely shipments using the US military or other govt resources. Could save lots of UK lives while the EU let's their neighbors die.
  - renaudg 7y ago
    It sounds like you're either trolling or deeply confused about what's going on. The EU is not threatening to block shipments of anything nor to "let their neighbors die". It's the UK government that seems intent on imposing economic sanctions unto itself by leaving the single market. Actually, the closest thing to suggesting to let neighbors die was these outrageous comments by UK Home Secretary Priti Patel a few weeks ago (https://www.joe.ie/news/british-politician-says-uk-threaten-ireland-food-shortages-leverage-backstop-650910 https://www.joe.ie/news/british-politician-says-uk-threaten-...), suggesting to cause food shortages in Ireland in order to pressure them to drop the backstop. To anyone who knows history between the 2 countries (actual famine in Ireland caused by Britain centuries ago), this is abhorrent.

pmlnr 7y ago

Go and talk to your elders about pre 1970 UK. I did. Regular 3 day power outages were common as a start.

alkonaut 7y ago

> The UK operated prior to the EU without all these disasters. This is true. But what’s discussed is how difficult it is to untangle 40 years of ever tighter integration. Decades ago things weren’t made in british factories using parts delivered just in time to be assembled, from multiple European supplier factories. No one is arguing that it’s impossible for Britain to function outside the EU. But “it worked before” isn’t an argument that leaving won’t be a disaster. Taking the same argument ad absurdum: Britain used to operate without electricity and cars. Now there is a hundred years of electricity and cars integrated into every corner of British society so if cars and electricity was suddenly removed, it would take a long time for Britain to adapt to the new old system of candles and horses. It would work (it has operated that way before) but it would be a disaster for quite some time. An initial shortage of horses and candles wouldn’t be the only problem.

jashmatthews 7y ago

> folks with diabetes dying Back in 1975 things were very different. We didn't have recombinant insulin and diabetics died much more often. It's not like we can flip a switch and go back to 1975, but keeping everything from 2019 running.

renaudg 7y ago

This is like saying it's easy to refactor a huge codebase to strip a critical software component from it overnight, because 40 years ago you used to have a standalone version that didn't require it.

privateSFacct 7y ago
Actually - if I can get totally illegal drugs in the UK, I suspect that if market forces work the same way for legal drugs as they do for illegal, folks who face death without their drugs will find a way to get supply of those drugs. And it will be totally appalling if the EU to prove a point blocks shipments of those drugs. This is a chance for the US perhaps to get in with some timely shipments using the US military or other govt resources. Could save lots of UK lives while the EU let's their neighbors die.
- renaudg 7y ago
  It sounds like you're either trolling or deeply confused about what's going on. The EU is not threatening to block shipments of anything nor to "let their neighbors die". It's the UK government that seems intent on imposing economic sanctions unto itself by leaving the single market. Actually, the closest thing to suggesting to let neighbors die was these outrageous comments by UK Home Secretary Priti Patel a few weeks ago (https://www.joe.ie/news/british-politician-says-uk-threaten-ireland-food-shortages-leverage-backstop-650910 https://www.joe.ie/news/british-politician-says-uk-threaten-...), suggesting to cause food shortages in Ireland in order to pressure them to drop the backstop. To anyone who knows history between the 2 countries (actual famine in Ireland caused by Britain centuries ago), this is abhorrent.