4 ms·

The EU and the British establishment will do everything they can to punish the UK for their insolence. All the more reason it was a good idea to #Leave. Better

The EU and the British establishment will do everything they can to punish the UK for their insolence. All the more reason it was a good idea to #Leave. Better to take whatever lumps that come now.

trilila 7y ago
Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.
- don_neufeld 7y ago
  They won’t recover, that’s not how trade works.
  - beaner 7y ago
    EU is more than just a trade agreement and there is nothing preventing trade agreements between the UK and the EU from being developed post-brexit.
    - jashmatthews 7y ago
      After leaving, the UK will be in a weak negotiating position. Recession is almost certain, and even using an existing trade deal like CETA as a basis will take multiple years to negotiate because of the current UK red lines, like controlling their own immigration policy. Canada had to adjust their immigration policy for several EU countries to get CETA. The UK will be over a barrel and will have to make major concessions. Whether you're pro EU or not this situation is a total balls-up.
      - don_neufeld 7y ago
        Exactly. This is going to go extremely badly for the UK.
    - throwaway122379 7y ago
      1st of November, Boris (or whoever is PM then) asks EU for trade deal. They respond with, "great, so about: 1. Irish border and Good Friday agreement 2. EU Citizens rights in UK 3. Payment of billions to which previous UK governments signed up to as EU member 4. How will you ensure low quality food from US does not enter EU"
      - bigbaguette 7y ago
        This is how international trade works. It's intimately intertwined with diplomacy and each party will play according to its own interests, related or not. Just like Russia could say "no gas for you" if you make too much of a fuss about what happened in Crimea. Now if the UK's view of its own future diverges from the EU, it's totally normal to see complications appear during negotiations.
    - samsonradu 7y ago
      Watching the UK negotiating a trade deal with the USA and China at the same time, considering the current geopolitical climate, will be outright interesting. Also take the HK situation into consideration. Hard to imagine a good outcome.
- throwaway122379 7y ago
  What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    > What? EU is loose federation of 29 EQUAL members To be fair: whatever us Germans and the French want, we eventually get - most often by outright nation-scale bribery. It's all backroom dealing - for example, us Germans get no opposition preventing harsher pollution regimes EU-wide (to protect our heavy car-oriented industry), the countries which would oppose get EU funding grants for construction or whatever.
    - abraae 7y ago
      To be fair: an economically stronger partner getting more of what they want because of backroom dealing etc. is not a "german/french dictatorship" as stated by OP - it's simple realpolitik.
    - renaudg 7y ago
      Likewise for the UK. Not even talking about the outrageously good (even slightly unfair) membership rebate they have, I remember reading that the UK has been outvoted around 2% of the time at the EU level, and not on important matters either.
  - trilila 7y ago
    The eu is far from a federation. And there is much imbalance between eu countries that a few more will burst against germany’s dictats. Everything that happens in the eu is decided by that country. Really worrying that few other countries speak up against it.
    - throwaway122379 7y ago
      Care to provide an example?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Jare 7y ago
Don't be absurd, nobody is trying to, or needs to, punish the UK. This is simply what happens when you jump without a parachute. There are so many things broken in the Brexit process, broken things that exist inside the UK alone, that the mere notion that the problems are caused intentionally by some foreign bad guys is just, well, absurd.
- mft_ 7y ago
  Seriously, irrespective of which ever side of the debate you stand, you must see that the EU has a strong, strong incentive to make this as difficult for the UK as possible?
  - brmgb 7y ago
    The EU has been extremely reasonable in its dealing with the UK to this point and thus despite the UK coming to the table with a list of red lines bordering on the impossible. The agreement which was refused by the UK parliament is a good compromise. That's as far from a punishment you can get.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    No? Especially look at Ireland, which is driving quite a bit of the EU side such as the "backstop"; they're very closely tied to the UK and don't want to go down with it.
  - cybersnowflake 7y ago
    No man you're hallucinating all those talking heads, articles, multimillion dollar campaigns, and plain logic.The EU secretly doesn't care or even WANTS the UK to leave according to the wise bearded mean of HN.
jashmatthews 7y ago
Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg literally are the "Eaton to Oxford" establishment of the UK. There's nothing anti-establishment about Brexit.
- cybersnowflake 7y ago
  If the Brexiters spent all their time worrying about kitchen knives and making people buy porn licenses instead of getting out of the EU you might have a point.
untog 7y ago
The British establishment want Brexit. They are the masterminds behind Brexit. The idea that the establishment resists it is their greatest trick of all.
nitwit005 7y ago
So you demand to leave the EU, and when it becomes apparent that there will be downsides to this, you insist it's the fault of the people who said it was a bad idea? At least have the courage to own the consequences of your decisions.
ChuckNorris89 7y ago
There are many things wrong with the EU, but the stuff the UK complains about are entirely self-inflicted.
woah 7y ago
I’m no expert but it seemed that the big oversight in Brexit was that a war on UK’s border was put on hold in the 90’s due to the fact that the EU made borders within Europe pretty inconsequential. The backstop was Theresa May’s attempt at solving the problem of both having a border and not having a border, by basically not leaving the EU. Talk of the EU “punishing” the UK is silly. The EU is not going to renegotiate a huge set of treaties (the leaving agreement) due to the fact that the UK can’t find a way to both have a border and not have a border. They just spent 2 years negotiating with the UK and now the UK has gotten cold feet.

The EU and the British establishment will do everything they can to punish the UK for their insolence. All the more reason it was a good idea to #Leave. Better to take whatever lumps that come now.

trilila 7y ago

Agreed. The eu is basically a german/french dictatorship. The thing is, once the uk recovers after the leave event, many other eu countries will follow suit.

don_neufeld 7y ago
They won’t recover, that’s not how trade works.
- beaner 7y ago
  EU is more than just a trade agreement and there is nothing preventing trade agreements between the UK and the EU from being developed post-brexit.
  - jashmatthews 7y ago
    After leaving, the UK will be in a weak negotiating position. Recession is almost certain, and even using an existing trade deal like CETA as a basis will take multiple years to negotiate because of the current UK red lines, like controlling their own immigration policy. Canada had to adjust their immigration policy for several EU countries to get CETA. The UK will be over a barrel and will have to make major concessions. Whether you're pro EU or not this situation is a total balls-up.
    - don_neufeld 7y ago
      Exactly. This is going to go extremely badly for the UK.
  - throwaway122379 7y ago
    1st of November, Boris (or whoever is PM then) asks EU for trade deal. They respond with, "great, so about: 1. Irish border and Good Friday agreement 2. EU Citizens rights in UK 3. Payment of billions to which previous UK governments signed up to as EU member 4. How will you ensure low quality food from US does not enter EU"
    - bigbaguette 7y ago
      This is how international trade works. It's intimately intertwined with diplomacy and each party will play according to its own interests, related or not. Just like Russia could say "no gas for you" if you make too much of a fuss about what happened in Crimea. Now if the UK's view of its own future diverges from the EU, it's totally normal to see complications appear during negotiations.
  - samsonradu 7y ago
    Watching the UK negotiating a trade deal with the USA and China at the same time, considering the current geopolitical climate, will be outright interesting. Also take the HK situation into consideration. Hard to imagine a good outcome.
throwaway122379 7y ago
What? EU is loose federation of 28 EQUAL members I think the UK has a problem with being an equal and has not got over its loss of empire, just look at how they treat their own constituent countries such as Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > What? EU is loose federation of 29 EQUAL members To be fair: whatever us Germans and the French want, we eventually get - most often by outright nation-scale bribery. It's all backroom dealing - for example, us Germans get no opposition preventing harsher pollution regimes EU-wide (to protect our heavy car-oriented industry), the countries which would oppose get EU funding grants for construction or whatever.
  - abraae 7y ago
    To be fair: an economically stronger partner getting more of what they want because of backroom dealing etc. is not a "german/french dictatorship" as stated by OP - it's simple realpolitik.
  - renaudg 7y ago
    Likewise for the UK. Not even talking about the outrageously good (even slightly unfair) membership rebate they have, I remember reading that the UK has been outvoted around 2% of the time at the EU level, and not on important matters either.
- trilila 7y ago
  The eu is far from a federation. And there is much imbalance between eu countries that a few more will burst against germany’s dictats. Everything that happens in the eu is decided by that country. Really worrying that few other countries speak up against it.
  - throwaway122379 7y ago
    Care to provide an example?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Jare 7y ago

Don't be absurd, nobody is trying to, or needs to, punish the UK. This is simply what happens when you jump without a parachute. There are so many things broken in the Brexit process, broken things that exist inside the UK alone, that the mere notion that the problems are caused intentionally by some foreign bad guys is just, well, absurd.

mft_ 7y ago
Seriously, irrespective of which ever side of the debate you stand, you must see that the EU has a strong, strong incentive to make this as difficult for the UK as possible?
- brmgb 7y ago
  The EU has been extremely reasonable in its dealing with the UK to this point and thus despite the UK coming to the table with a list of red lines bordering on the impossible. The agreement which was refused by the UK parliament is a good compromise. That's as far from a punishment you can get.
- pjc50 7y ago
  No? Especially look at Ireland, which is driving quite a bit of the EU side such as the "backstop"; they're very closely tied to the UK and don't want to go down with it.
- cybersnowflake 7y ago
  No man you're hallucinating all those talking heads, articles, multimillion dollar campaigns, and plain logic.The EU secretly doesn't care or even WANTS the UK to leave according to the wise bearded mean of HN.

jashmatthews 7y ago

Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg literally are the "Eaton to Oxford" establishment of the UK. There's nothing anti-establishment about Brexit.

cybersnowflake 7y ago
If the Brexiters spent all their time worrying about kitchen knives and making people buy porn licenses instead of getting out of the EU you might have a point.

untog 7y ago

The British establishment want Brexit. They are the masterminds behind Brexit. The idea that the establishment resists it is their greatest trick of all.

nitwit005 7y ago

So you demand to leave the EU, and when it becomes apparent that there will be downsides to this, you insist it's the fault of the people who said it was a bad idea? At least have the courage to own the consequences of your decisions.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

There are many things wrong with the EU, but the stuff the UK complains about are entirely self-inflicted.

woah 7y ago

I’m no expert but it seemed that the big oversight in Brexit was that a war on UK’s border was put on hold in the 90’s due to the fact that the EU made borders within Europe pretty inconsequential. The backstop was Theresa May’s attempt at solving the problem of both having a border and not having a border, by basically not leaving the EU. Talk of the EU “punishing” the UK is silly. The EU is not going to renegotiate a huge set of treaties (the leaving agreement) due to the fact that the UK can’t find a way to both have a border and not have a border. They just spent 2 years negotiating with the UK and now the UK has gotten cold feet.