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Ludwig Wittgenstein: the borders of my language are the borders of my world. English is a language many young Slavs learn in preparation to or in the course of

Ludwig Wittgenstein: the borders of my language are the borders of my world. English is a language many young Slavs learn in preparation to or in the course of their professional life as in the world of the Pax Americana it quite simply has become an economical necessity to know it well. However, the English language cannot naturally transmit any of the linguistic particularities (proverbs, turns of phrases) and, generally, cultural notions and historical familiarities that to a certain extent are shared by the various Slavic peoples. English for Slavs is a foreign language in the true sense of the word, whereas a language like Russian is much closer linguistically and culturally. There's the heritage of the Soviet Union which makes Russian the trans-national language of choice for the generations educated in the Soviet times. And indeed that could be the very same reason why these days it's rather unpopular among the young people in, say, Poland. Which is a real shame because as a trans-Slavic language IMO it does a great job and is a very beautiful language as well. I am Polish and when speaking to a fellow Slav, I much prefer to try to get us to speak in our own languages, even if it requires effort. Otherwise, I prefer to speak Russian if the person I'm communicating with knows it too. I find it very, very awkward using English in those situations, i.e. in conversations with a Serb or a Czech (but not with a German or a Swede).

p1esk 7y ago
I think it depends on the fluency of your Russian vs fluency of your English. I’m Russian and I’m fluent in English so if I sensed you don’t quite understand what I’m saying in Russian I’d immediately try English. I’d have probably ended up mixing the two.
- villedepommes 7y ago
  > I’d immediately try English. Unless it's a literal matter of life and death to understand what the other person is saying without too much of a delay, it's a pretty asshole-y thing to do: a) The other person will "immediately" know that you think that their Russian is not up to snuff. b) They'll know their well intended effort isn't appreciated.
  - tasogare 7y ago
    I'm living in a foreign country and speak fluently 3 languages, and known a few things in a forth one. Deciding which language to use with which person is a taxing effort in itself, especially in a group setting. There is no such thing as "asshole-y thing" to use English because each communication setting is different. Sometime the most important thing is to be understood quickly, then using English if there is any friction makes sense. On the other hand, if the goal is to build some emotional rapport, trying harder in the other person's native language is worth doing.
    - villedepommes 7y ago
      > There is no such thing as "asshole-y thing" to use English because each communication setting is different Exactly because each communication setting is different, in a number of them, switching to English unconditionally, which is what the parent was suggesting, is indeed an "asshole-y" thing to do. > Sometime the most important thing is to be understood quickly Isn't this exactly what I said, "Unless it's a literal matter of life and death to understand what the other person is saying without too much of a delay?" > Deciding which language to use with which person is a taxing effort in itself, especially in a group setting In a group -- yes. Else, you just sound lazy at best and like a person who doesn't give a duck at worst. > On the other hand, if the goal is to build some emotional rapport, trying harder in the other person's native language is worth doing. The goal is to just be a decent human-being who is at least sometimes considerate of others' wants.
      - zajio1am 7y ago
        > The goal is to just be a decent human-being who is at least sometimes considerate of others' wants. Why would consideration of other person wants trump the consideration of the first preson wants? If is a symmetric situation, then preferences of both sides has equal value. Also, this is not a thing people need to agree on. There is no problem if each side of dialog uses a different language, if each side comes to a different conclusion about optimal language.
      - p1esk 7y ago
villedepommes 7y ago
I agree with pretty much everything what you've said here! > I much prefer to try to get us to speak in our own languages, even if it requires effort. Also, when it does work, we'd get to experience the glimpse of the sense of some shared heritage (e.g. cultural, historical, etc) and at the same time we'd feel good about the uniqueness and differences of our own languages/cultures. > Otherwise, I prefer to speak Russian if the person I'm communicating with knows it too. If someone spoke Russian to me, I'd be a) very flattered and b) try accommodating them with their effort as much as possible.

p1esk 7y ago

I think it depends on the fluency of your Russian vs fluency of your English. I’m Russian and I’m fluent in English so if I sensed you don’t quite understand what I’m saying in Russian I’d immediately try English. I’d have probably ended up mixing the two.

villedepommes 7y ago
> I’d immediately try English. Unless it's a literal matter of life and death to understand what the other person is saying without too much of a delay, it's a pretty asshole-y thing to do: a) The other person will "immediately" know that you think that their Russian is not up to snuff. b) They'll know their well intended effort isn't appreciated.
- tasogare 7y ago
  I'm living in a foreign country and speak fluently 3 languages, and known a few things in a forth one. Deciding which language to use with which person is a taxing effort in itself, especially in a group setting. There is no such thing as "asshole-y thing" to use English because each communication setting is different. Sometime the most important thing is to be understood quickly, then using English if there is any friction makes sense. On the other hand, if the goal is to build some emotional rapport, trying harder in the other person's native language is worth doing.
  - villedepommes 7y ago
    > There is no such thing as "asshole-y thing" to use English because each communication setting is different Exactly because each communication setting is different, in a number of them, switching to English unconditionally, which is what the parent was suggesting, is indeed an "asshole-y" thing to do. > Sometime the most important thing is to be understood quickly Isn't this exactly what I said, "Unless it's a literal matter of life and death to understand what the other person is saying without too much of a delay?" > Deciding which language to use with which person is a taxing effort in itself, especially in a group setting In a group -- yes. Else, you just sound lazy at best and like a person who doesn't give a duck at worst. > On the other hand, if the goal is to build some emotional rapport, trying harder in the other person's native language is worth doing. The goal is to just be a decent human-being who is at least sometimes considerate of others' wants.
    - zajio1am 7y ago
      > The goal is to just be a decent human-being who is at least sometimes considerate of others' wants. Why would consideration of other person wants trump the consideration of the first preson wants? If is a symmetric situation, then preferences of both sides has equal value. Also, this is not a thing people need to agree on. There is no problem if each side of dialog uses a different language, if each side comes to a different conclusion about optimal language.
    - p1esk 7y ago

villedepommes 7y ago

I agree with pretty much everything what you've said here! > I much prefer to try to get us to speak in our own languages, even if it requires effort. Also, when it does work, we'd get to experience the glimpse of the sense of some shared heritage (e.g. cultural, historical, etc) and at the same time we'd feel good about the uniqueness and differences of our own languages/cultures. > Otherwise, I prefer to speak Russian if the person I'm communicating with knows it too. If someone spoke Russian to me, I'd be a) very flattered and b) try accommodating them with their effort as much as possible.