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Reading The unnatural history of the sea by Callum Roberts really blew my mind. It is almost impossible to imagine how rich the seas were – in fish and other li

by hanche 7y ago

Reading The unnatural history of the sea by Callum Roberts really blew my mind. It is almost impossible to imagine how rich the seas were – in fish and other life – before we started large scale fishing, centuries ago. This is a stunning example of the problem of shifting baselines: We tend think that the normal state of the world is what we grew up with, when we really should use the world as it looked to our great-great-great-grandfathers (at least) as the baseline.

preommr 7y ago
There's a heritage minutes video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w ~1 min long) about John Cabot who's ship got slowed down because there were so many cod in the water. It ends with him going back to england and saying that there's enough fish to feed people until the end of time. We really fucked things up.
- hanche 7y ago
  Correction: Our forefathers really fucked things up. We are merely continuing what they started.
mikeash 7y ago
This series of photos from a Key West fishing tour company really drives it home: https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/big-fish-stories-getting-littler https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/b...
- paulcole 7y ago
  As someone who grew up fishing in the Keys, there are quite a few problems with the analysis and the article. 1. Goliath Grouper (formerly known as Jewfish) have been protected in Florida for quite awhile — meaning none could have been brought in for the more recent photos at all (these are the huge fish in the first few photos). Anyone who fishes in South Florida knows how abundant these fish are now. If a single person wanted to (and the law allowed it) they could easily bring in a half-ton of fish in a day. In some places it would be possible to do this from shore, without a boat. 2. Catch and release for species shown in the older photos: Permit, Amberjack (known to be particularly worm-filled) Ladyfish, shark species is greatly on the rise as modern fishermen in Florida have no interest in eating those fish (Ladyfish particularly are considered trash fish and/or bait, although they are quite fun to catch). Charter captains will STRONGLY encourage their release. 3. Using average is a poor metric when people were bringing in multiple 300lb.+ Goliath Grouper and now the emphasis is on keeping smaller food fish: Yellowtail Snapper, Grunts, etc. 4. Fishing in the Keys is HIGHLY seasonal. There’s no indication in the article if the photos are from the same time of year. I would guess the older Permit-filled photo is from the winter and the newer photo with Yellowtail Snapper and a few other smaller fish is from spring or early summer. 5. The specifically mentioned shrinkage in shark size is again related to both laws and changing priorities in fishermen and charter captains. Very few people will consider keeping a shark these days unless the fish is dead when it gets to the boat or it’s a small Blacktip or Mako that might be good eating.
fzeroracer 7y ago
My parents share the same tales. They were fishermen off the west coast and even just 20-30 years ago there was an abundance of fish and made fishing a thriving industry. Unfortunately, overfishing combined with pollution and climate change has severely depleted stocks. It's just another example of ruthless industrialization and commercialization resulted in pushing the environment past the brink. An industry unregulated will eventually eat itself out of existence with terrible side effects.
Gibbon1 7y ago
Worry of mine is by fishing we've been extracting trace nutrients of the ocean food chain that aren't readily replaced. Which is why the plankton is disappearing too.

by hanche 7y ago

preommr 7y ago

There's a heritage minutes video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds8G9sFOK5w ~1 min long) about John Cabot who's ship got slowed down because there were so many cod in the water. It ends with him going back to england and saying that there's enough fish to feed people until the end of time. We really fucked things up.

hanche 7y ago
Correction: Our forefathers really fucked things up. We are merely continuing what they started.

mikeash 7y ago

This series of photos from a Key West fishing tour company really drives it home: https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/big-fish-stories-getting-littler https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2014/02/05/257046530/b...

paulcole 7y ago
As someone who grew up fishing in the Keys, there are quite a few problems with the analysis and the article. 1. Goliath Grouper (formerly known as Jewfish) have been protected in Florida for quite awhile — meaning none could have been brought in for the more recent photos at all (these are the huge fish in the first few photos). Anyone who fishes in South Florida knows how abundant these fish are now. If a single person wanted to (and the law allowed it) they could easily bring in a half-ton of fish in a day. In some places it would be possible to do this from shore, without a boat. 2. Catch and release for species shown in the older photos: Permit, Amberjack (known to be particularly worm-filled) Ladyfish, shark species is greatly on the rise as modern fishermen in Florida have no interest in eating those fish (Ladyfish particularly are considered trash fish and/or bait, although they are quite fun to catch). Charter captains will STRONGLY encourage their release. 3. Using average is a poor metric when people were bringing in multiple 300lb.+ Goliath Grouper and now the emphasis is on keeping smaller food fish: Yellowtail Snapper, Grunts, etc. 4. Fishing in the Keys is HIGHLY seasonal. There’s no indication in the article if the photos are from the same time of year. I would guess the older Permit-filled photo is from the winter and the newer photo with Yellowtail Snapper and a few other smaller fish is from spring or early summer. 5. The specifically mentioned shrinkage in shark size is again related to both laws and changing priorities in fishermen and charter captains. Very few people will consider keeping a shark these days unless the fish is dead when it gets to the boat or it’s a small Blacktip or Mako that might be good eating.

fzeroracer 7y ago

My parents share the same tales. They were fishermen off the west coast and even just 20-30 years ago there was an abundance of fish and made fishing a thriving industry. Unfortunately, overfishing combined with pollution and climate change has severely depleted stocks. It's just another example of ruthless industrialization and commercialization resulted in pushing the environment past the brink. An industry unregulated will eventually eat itself out of existence with terrible side effects.

Gibbon1 7y ago

Worry of mine is by fishing we've been extracting trace nutrients of the ocean food chain that aren't readily replaced. Which is why the plankton is disappearing too.