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I'd be fine with a resume that included some modern design elements, especially if it were a position which might involve some design work. A "by the numbers"
by ken 7y ago
I'd be fine with a resume that included some modern design elements, especially if it were a position which might involve some design work. A "by the numbers" summary could make it easier to see the points a candidate thinks are important.
But a photograph would make me immediately pass. There's no way for me to be sure I can avoid prejudice. I already hate that resumes include names/addresses in such a prominent place. Those should be off to the side, so they can easily be removed before the resume even gets to me.
> The flashy résumés are colliding with efforts by employers to strip down CVs to their most basic elements—coding skills, college degrees, work histories—to reduce bias in hiring. Many companies run résumés through tools called applicant tracking systems that remove photos and other design embellishments. Others are looking for ways to blind out even names and addresses, which could reveal gender, race or socioeconomic status.
Exactly! We should be trying to reduce bias in hiring, not add to it. This is exactly what is meant by "privilege". Either they're hoping to get hired based on how they look, or they don't realize or care that they're creating more work for someone else to strip out all this junk before anyone can read it.
- auggierose 7y agoIn countries like Germany it is normal to include your picture. Don't see what the problem is, before you hire someone you are usually seeing them in person anyway.
- CydeWeys 7y agoIn the United States it is definitely not normal to include your picture, and doing so can lead to conscious or unconscious bias against someone because of their race, gender, beauty, etc. Germany has these problems too.
- auggierose 7y agoThese problems don't go away by not including a picture... In Germany a resume without a picture looks odd.
- changchuming 7y agoIt does reduce bias in the screening stage, which is exactly what its intended purpose is.
- majewsky 7y agoBut it's not something that you can decide to do as a candidate. Without a picture, you're the oddball that doesn't get past the first screening.
- rsynnott 7y agoHas this changed as hiring gets more international? When I started seeing CVs with pictures I thought it was really, really weird, but I soon realised it was just the norm in some countries. I still think CVs with _pie charts_ are pretty weird, tho...
- majewsky 7y agoFWIW, I'm with you on pie charts. :)
- TaylorAlexander 7y agoThat is only true when everyone else includes a picture. As others said it is great in the US that nobody includes pictures on their resume.
- googlesux 7y agoYou live in a homogenous white country I'm sure your situation is different than the US.
- learc83 7y agoWhat's the benefit to employees and employers?
- tdfx 7y agoThis reminds me of a funny conversation I had with a coworker: he's black and was complaining that his sister named his nephew "Lashawn" (for those outside the US: it's a very stereotypically African-American name). He remarked: "do you want his resume to go directly to the trash bin every time?" Funny at the time but kind of depressing in retrospect.
- krzepah 7y agoIn france it's even forbidden if I'm not mistaken
- m3at 7y agoNot only is it not forbidden in France, in tech at least it is expected that you put a picture. Yes it's also allowed not to put one (and illegal to discriminate because it's not here), but from my experience most people do. (source: graduated there)
- tasogare 7y agoNo, it’s not.
- seszett 7y agoI'm pretty sure I was told at school to never include a picture, but that was more than a decade ago. Today I see most resumes having pictures, especially those from Epitech candidates. I don't like it though, I don't see how a picture is relevant to a resume.
- stringyham 7y agoIt's absolutely not. Most of my friends put a picture. I'm in tech and I don't but that's a personal choice.
- branchless 7y agoShould we really listen to the USA for race advice of any kind?
- wfttt 7y agoRace... Germany is a white country, but name would make it evident. Gender, too: you can tell from the name. Beauty... that's another thing. But beauty is only important depending on what you're looking for. Definitely not if you're looking for a plumber... or a programmer :P
- zhte415 7y ago> In the United States it is definitely not normal to include your picture LinkedIn?
- CameronNemo 7y agothey bother me every time i login because i have no picture set
- blaser-waffle 7y agoDitto. And they ask for an explanation why.
- Ambele 7y agoRecruiters spend 60% of their time looking at your profile picture.
- big_chungus 7y agoIs there a source for this where I can read more?
- Diederich 7y ago> And they ask for an explanation why. Really? That's funny. Did they just throw up a text box for you to fill in?
- Zxian 7y agoThere have been many studies that show bias in the a screening process when gender or ethnicity are known. Ideally, the hiring manager should be given anonymized resumes so they can better make objective decisions about the candidates. https://m.phys.org/news/2019-03-women-percent-hiring-men.html https://m.phys.org/news/2019-03-women-percent-hiring-men.htm...
- jjeaff 7y agoDoes that bias go away when meeting the candidate in person? Perhaps we should do phone only interviews with voice changing tech.
- derekp7 7y agoSometimes the biggest hurtle to getting a job is just getting to the interview.
- andrewflnr 7y agoYou can't avoid it forever, but it's more critical in the early stages where small signals have a big impact. If you've invested enough time in a candidate to do an interview, you're more (subconsciously) motivated to plow through (subconscious) biases.
- rayiner 7y agoOr via chat.
- astura 7y agoIt's been my experience that this often happens nowadays - either the third party recruiter or HR removes identifying information from the resume before passing it onto the hiring manager. I've seen my resume with this treatment during interviews.
- sokoloff 7y agoIt may be because I’m hiring for very senior roles, but you can bet I’m looking on LinkedIn and github before bringing someone on-site. Doesn’t mean you have to be on there, but for sure I’m looking to see if I know a connection or have a look at your code and commit habits.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- 03b581a408 7y agoAnd Germany produced the Holocaust. Do we really want to use them as example of normal?
- kuerbel 7y agoI grew up in Switzerland and I remember that for our very first application right after school, for apprenticeships, we should put the names and jobs of our parents on it... Out of interest I searched and read a guide and lo and behold, it is no longer recommended for anyone - except for applying for apprenticeships.
- starky 7y agoThe problem is people having a prejudice one way or another due to how the person looks. I know personally, being based in North America, the few times I've seen resumes my initial thought is, "Oh, they must be new to the country since they don't know that isn't acceptable here."
- achow 7y agoI'm seeing a trend where now first (and 2nd, 3rd level) of screening is happening sans resume - based upon Linkedin profiles. And Linkedin profiles are anything but B&W (includes lot of other signals including profile pics).
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- RealityVoid 7y ago> But a photograph would make me immediately pass. Soo, you're fighting discrimination by being discriminatory? That's bonkers to me!
- Volundr 7y agoNot the OP, but I expect it's more CYA. Many employers will reject a candidate that puts their age in their cover letter or resume. Rejecting these isn't about fighting age discrimination, but having the policy means that the candidate can't later claim discrimination, because anyone who shares that detail regardless of age is out.
- zhte415 7y agoYear of graduation, or years of experience, would surely indicate approximate age for the majority of candidates?
- dwaltrip 7y agoPeople who place photos on a resume are not a protected class. Perhaps it is a bit unusual to automatically exclude those applicants, but it is _not_ discrimination (as defined by the law).
- ecf 7y agoPeople who ride their bike to work aren't a protected class, yet I've been informed it's not okay to ask a candidate how their commute was. I really don't want anything to do with the recruiting and hiring process.
- SamReidHughes 7y agoThat sounds crazy. How is it not okay to ask about the commute?
- big_chungus 7y ago