7 ms·

> “spin aficionado, dog lover, foodie, outdoor enthusiast.” I don't know about marketing, but if I received a CV with this I'd most likely throw it straight in

> “spin aficionado, dog lover, foodie, outdoor enthusiast.” I don't know about marketing, but if I received a CV with this I'd most likely throw it straight in the trash. I don't want CVs to be unique, I judge people based on merit. The more basic the CV the better in my opinion. Just the other day I was slightly upset when someone showed me a candidates LinkedIn profile containing quite a non-professional picture because it immediately put me off a bit.

seer 7y ago
From being involved with non-anecdotal data sets on the subject I can say its actually the other way around. With those little tidbits of virtue signaling that you choose to put in the resume usually give the opportunity for the reviewer to see you as more the “just a react dev” and depending on how many people your are competing with - gives you the edge. Experience speaks for itself, and if you have the creds then sure those things can look like pure cruft, but what if you’re just starting out? You need something to stand out, and like it or not most reviewers are humans too, even worse - are not strictly technical, so if you for example like to run, mention that in your resume, and the HR person is also a runner, well he can recommend you based on “gut feeling” and how “runners are more emotionally stable and reliable” or some such. And if by a chance their resume ends up reviewed and judged negatively base on non technical prejudice or something, well you’re better of not working there anyway, as it will probably be damaging emotionally in the long run.
notus 7y ago
This is actually a really good point. The more information you give in general just creates more vectors for unwanted biases.
- paulcole 7y ago
  Also the #1 rule to creating a successful profile on a dating site. Say the absolute minimum and nothing more. Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
  - afarrell 7y ago
    Huh? With dating, don’t you want to display your personality vibrantly so that you can more effectively filter for those who want to be with someone like you?
    - jvagner 7y ago
      No, you want to entice. The more you say, the more content you’re providing that will lead to a dismissal.
      - b_tterc_p 7y ago
        Unless... you don’t want to meet people who wouldn’t want to meet you due to knowing more about you
        jvagner 7y ago
        That works at deeper levels of the game. But in level one, it's not always advisable to hold too hard on this move. Better to assume that most players on Tinder want Criterion, but pick Netflix.
    - paulcole 7y ago
      You are making the common mistake of confusing actual dating with using a dating website. The goal of the dating website is to get a date. You do that by finding someone who seems interesting and who does not have any red flags. Why put out more information than is needed and give more for people to find something wrong with you?
      - KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago
        Presumably OP wants a decent relationship rather than just another increment on his scorecard. But point taken if the goal is to maximize the number of yeses.
        7y ago
jakear 7y ago
The people who are writing resumes like this are doing it to avoid working at a place like yours. It’s a resume for people who want their company to care about its employees’ interests.
- maxaf 7y ago
  I don’t care about my colleagues’ interests. I treat them decently and with respect when we’re working together, but at the close of business we go our separate ways and pursue our interests any way we see fit. Likewise, I don’t expect my coworkers to care about my hobbies. Most of them would be horrified to find out.
  - jakear 7y ago
    Yeah. The person writing that resume doesn’t want to work for you, and you’d not hire them. The system works.
    - maxaf 7y ago
      You seem to be defending the perpetuation of bias: hiring based on properties of a person that are orthogonal to technical skill. Bias comes in many shapes and sizes. For example, hiring only white people would be a form of bias. Likewise, hiring only those who share the same interests as the hiring manager is a form of bias. Even looking out for the mere presence of an "interests & hobbies" section on the resume can be considered bias.
      - jakear 7y ago
        If you consider a persons contribution to a company to be purely technical, your argument holds. I take it you might feel that way, I do not.
        mancerayder 7y ago
        How does a love of dogs and the outdoors (example above) contribute meaningfully to a tech role? How about a love of dance or photography? We go to work to get paid for our skills, not to go camping together or share our love of bird watching. What if a hobby included volunteering at a church, mosque, local GOP or DNC fundraising HQ, re-enacting War simulations or practicing at a gun range? I agree with the posters above who think this is, at best, useless and at worst, a potential for discrimination.
themagician 7y ago
Outside of programming, skilled trades, and other more solitary jobs, “merit” isn’t that important. You start to look for things first like, “is this person going to get along with everyone o r be a problem,” and “am I going to enjoy interacting with them?” This is true for both high paying creative jobs and minimum wage work. These days I’d rather hire someone slightly less qualified that’s easy to work with than someone who looks perfect on paper and is going to cause me all sorts of problems. Especially when you run a business and are responsible for HR issues. I can’t even remember the last time I really read a CV. What someone’s done in the past is only relevant in certain instances.
- Arcanum-XIII 7y ago
  It is important in programming and other skilled trade, except if they’re going to work in a vacuum. A good fit for the team will always be a win over time.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
wolco 7y ago
Everything else aside if you are getting upset over someone's linkedin profile picture it could be a sign that you are at the end of your rope. Consider taking a break.. something like that should be funny or neutral. But not anger.
- vultour 7y ago
  I got upset over someone showing it to me, not the contents.
jjeaff 7y ago
Hiring based only on merit is a good way to get a company full of assholes.
candybar 7y ago
This seems contradictory - if you're auto-rejecting CVs with information like that, you're not judging people on merit. I personally wouldn't include information like this myself and would ignore any such information on resumes but I don't see how this would disqualify someone - there are no resumes with just the information you need to judge the candidate, no one customizes resumes specifically for your personal criteria. Being upset that someone included information that you prefer not to see and throwing the resume out as a result seems even worse than judging people based on their interests - you are using arbitrary personal criteria that have nothing to do with merit to disqualify people.
thosakwe 7y ago
A workplace where candidates get auto-rejected because their resume is in a different format, or because of a LinkedIn profile picture, is probably not where the person in the article might want to work. For many people, part of whether somewhere is a “good fit” for them depends on whether they can still live their same life after getting the job. If an employer is willing to reject applications just because of profile pictures (not so-called “merit”), actually working there is probably a similar experience.
WalterBright 7y ago
I find it off-putting when political candidates submit an unprofessional picture for the Voters Pamphlet. By unprofessional, I mean not wearing a decent shirt, for example.

seer 7y ago

From being involved with non-anecdotal data sets on the subject I can say its actually the other way around. With those little tidbits of virtue signaling that you choose to put in the resume usually give the opportunity for the reviewer to see you as more the “just a react dev” and depending on how many people your are competing with - gives you the edge. Experience speaks for itself, and if you have the creds then sure those things can look like pure cruft, but what if you’re just starting out? You need something to stand out, and like it or not most reviewers are humans too, even worse - are not strictly technical, so if you for example like to run, mention that in your resume, and the HR person is also a runner, well he can recommend you based on “gut feeling” and how “runners are more emotionally stable and reliable” or some such. And if by a chance their resume ends up reviewed and judged negatively base on non technical prejudice or something, well you’re better of not working there anyway, as it will probably be damaging emotionally in the long run.

notus 7y ago

This is actually a really good point. The more information you give in general just creates more vectors for unwanted biases.

paulcole 7y ago
Also the #1 rule to creating a successful profile on a dating site. Say the absolute minimum and nothing more. Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
- afarrell 7y ago
  Huh? With dating, don’t you want to display your personality vibrantly so that you can more effectively filter for those who want to be with someone like you?
  - jvagner 7y ago
    No, you want to entice. The more you say, the more content you’re providing that will lead to a dismissal.
    - b_tterc_p 7y ago
      Unless... you don’t want to meet people who wouldn’t want to meet you due to knowing more about you
      - jvagner 7y ago
        That works at deeper levels of the game. But in level one, it's not always advisable to hold too hard on this move. Better to assume that most players on Tinder want Criterion, but pick Netflix.
  - paulcole 7y ago
    You are making the common mistake of confusing actual dating with using a dating website. The goal of the dating website is to get a date. You do that by finding someone who seems interesting and who does not have any red flags. Why put out more information than is needed and give more for people to find something wrong with you?
    - KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago
      Presumably OP wants a decent relationship rather than just another increment on his scorecard. But point taken if the goal is to maximize the number of yeses.
      - 7y ago

jakear 7y ago

The people who are writing resumes like this are doing it to avoid working at a place like yours. It’s a resume for people who want their company to care about its employees’ interests.

maxaf 7y ago
I don’t care about my colleagues’ interests. I treat them decently and with respect when we’re working together, but at the close of business we go our separate ways and pursue our interests any way we see fit. Likewise, I don’t expect my coworkers to care about my hobbies. Most of them would be horrified to find out.
- jakear 7y ago
  Yeah. The person writing that resume doesn’t want to work for you, and you’d not hire them. The system works.
  - maxaf 7y ago
    You seem to be defending the perpetuation of bias: hiring based on properties of a person that are orthogonal to technical skill. Bias comes in many shapes and sizes. For example, hiring only white people would be a form of bias. Likewise, hiring only those who share the same interests as the hiring manager is a form of bias. Even looking out for the mere presence of an "interests & hobbies" section on the resume can be considered bias.
    - jakear 7y ago
      If you consider a persons contribution to a company to be purely technical, your argument holds. I take it you might feel that way, I do not.
      - mancerayder 7y ago
        How does a love of dogs and the outdoors (example above) contribute meaningfully to a tech role? How about a love of dance or photography? We go to work to get paid for our skills, not to go camping together or share our love of bird watching. What if a hobby included volunteering at a church, mosque, local GOP or DNC fundraising HQ, re-enacting War simulations or practicing at a gun range? I agree with the posters above who think this is, at best, useless and at worst, a potential for discrimination.

themagician 7y ago

Outside of programming, skilled trades, and other more solitary jobs, “merit” isn’t that important. You start to look for things first like, “is this person going to get along with everyone o r be a problem,” and “am I going to enjoy interacting with them?” This is true for both high paying creative jobs and minimum wage work. These days I’d rather hire someone slightly less qualified that’s easy to work with than someone who looks perfect on paper and is going to cause me all sorts of problems. Especially when you run a business and are responsible for HR issues. I can’t even remember the last time I really read a CV. What someone’s done in the past is only relevant in certain instances.

Arcanum-XIII 7y ago
It is important in programming and other skilled trade, except if they’re going to work in a vacuum. A good fit for the team will always be a win over time.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

wolco 7y ago

Everything else aside if you are getting upset over someone's linkedin profile picture it could be a sign that you are at the end of your rope. Consider taking a break.. something like that should be funny or neutral. But not anger.

vultour 7y ago
I got upset over someone showing it to me, not the contents.

jjeaff 7y ago

Hiring based only on merit is a good way to get a company full of assholes.

candybar 7y ago

This seems contradictory - if you're auto-rejecting CVs with information like that, you're not judging people on merit. I personally wouldn't include information like this myself and would ignore any such information on resumes but I don't see how this would disqualify someone - there are no resumes with just the information you need to judge the candidate, no one customizes resumes specifically for your personal criteria. Being upset that someone included information that you prefer not to see and throwing the resume out as a result seems even worse than judging people based on their interests - you are using arbitrary personal criteria that have nothing to do with merit to disqualify people.

thosakwe 7y ago

A workplace where candidates get auto-rejected because their resume is in a different format, or because of a LinkedIn profile picture, is probably not where the person in the article might want to work. For many people, part of whether somewhere is a “good fit” for them depends on whether they can still live their same life after getting the job. If an employer is willing to reject applications just because of profile pictures (not so-called “merit”), actually working there is probably a similar experience.

WalterBright 7y ago

I find it off-putting when political candidates submit an unprofessional picture for the Voters Pamphlet. By unprofessional, I mean not wearing a decent shirt, for example.