4 ms·

IANAL but you should read the actual law, not a summary even when it is from the state: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Sec

IANAL but you should read the actual law, not a summary even when it is from the state: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131G https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Cha... I am a Mass resident and know not to mess with Mass gun laws - they carry a minimum of 2 1/2 years in jail. Total coincidence - MA has the lowest gun death rate at <1/3 the national average and <1/6 some of the most dangerous states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...

kbutler 7y ago
But Massachusetts is middling (20/50) on the gun murder rate ('''includes murders and willful manslaughters, but excludes "deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident" and justifiable homicides.'''). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state#Murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...
- asmithmd1 7y ago
  Yes, the only thing the Mass laws do is stop gun deaths "caused by negligence, suicide, or accident" and justifiable homicides - self defense or police shootings
  - kbutler 7y ago
    If the primary source of gun deaths is suicide/accident, does it make sense to put limits on "assault rifles"? Do background checks help prevent suicides or accidents? On the other hand, waiting periods, permit to purchase, etc., may be more helpful in preventing suicides (or minimizing fatal suicide attempts). What were the statistics and trends in Massachusetts before the laws were in force? It's important to look at the intent and effect of proposed (and on-the-books) legislation, and at the context of statistics.
    - briandear 7y ago
      We would also need data on suicide by other means in order to make any sort of statements regarding the effect gun availability on total suicides.
      - kbutler 7y ago
        I looked for it, but there are lots of confounding factors, particularly that statistics don't really distinguish between accidental poisoning/overdose and attempted suicide by poisoning/overdose. There is a good discussion of various factors (duration of suicide crises, availability of means, opportunity to abort the attempt or be rescued, and the lethality of the mechanism). "Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date." "A number of studies have indicated that when lethal means are made less available or less deadly, suicide rates by that method decline, and frequently suicide rates overall decline. This has been demonstrated in a number of areas: bridge barriers, detoxification of domestic gas, pesticides, medication packaging, and others." https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...
romaaeterna 7y ago
Yours is the wrong citation. See my other post for the correct exemption. Boston is your big city, right? It had 56 people murdered in 2018. Here are their pictures. https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-murders-2018 https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-murders-2018 As near as I can tell from the available pictures, the victims are largely or entirely black. They make up 23% of the city, according to wikipedia, or 159,754 people. So that is about 35 black victims per 100,000 black residents. In 2018, Chicago is about 40 black victims per 100,000 black residents. This is comparable to black victim rates elsewhere. I don't think that your gun rates are helping so much as the fact that you are a mostly white state without many urban centers.
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  Thank you for sharing this. Seeing the faces of the victims really hammers home the reality of murder in the United States: something that's much worse for black men (and the black community) than it is for everyone else.
- asmithmd1 7y ago
  I believe I have the correct citation, but IANAL. The article you linked is ALL murders in Boston - not just gun murders. And I am not sure what the race of murder victims has to do with gun death rates, the race of the gun using murderer is more important... I am not saying all young white Christian men are mass murderers, but they can't deny that young white Christian men have a mass murder problem, somehow they are being radicalized.
  - romaaeterna 7y ago
    I'm afraid that I unaware of evidence that mass murders are a Christian problem whatsoever. Nor does it seem to be a political "radicalization" issue, as would be similar to what the UK saw during the Irish troubles, to take one of several possible examples. But I think that people might better describe it as serious mental health epidemic of as yet poorly understood origin. (Pick your poison: drugs, social media, social climate, etc.) Some people have put forward decent ideas on how we could restrict firearms from such individuals. (I personally think that everyone purchasing a firearm should have to find a longtime acquaintance to swear under penalty of perjury that this person is fit to own a firearm. Maybe others have better ideas.) Regardless, I hope that that situation can be improved somehow.
DuskStar 7y ago
> Total coincidence - MA has the lowest gun death rate at <1/3 the national average and <1/6 some of the most dangerous states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni... And yet Massachusetts' murder rate of 3.2/100k/yr is right about the median for the US. Who ever would have thought? (Granted, the suicide rate of 8.8/100k/yr is pretty impressive, and some of that might be assignable to their gun control efforts)
- scotty79 7y ago
  Lower availability of guns does not influence murder rates (much?). Murder is when one human wants to kill another and that's not hard, humans are as dedicated as they are fragile. What availability of guns influences most are homicides. Where you don't necessarily want to kill another human but you want their stuff or you want to teach them a lesson, also accidental deaths and I think suicides (probably quickness and decisiveness draws people).
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    The point was that (virtually) no one ever campaigns for gun control on the basis of reducing suicide - only murder, and often only mass shootings.

kbutler 7y ago

But Massachusetts is middling (20/50) on the gun murder rate ('''includes murders and willful manslaughters, but excludes "deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident" and justifiable homicides.'''). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state#Murders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni...

asmithmd1 7y ago
Yes, the only thing the Mass laws do is stop gun deaths "caused by negligence, suicide, or accident" and justifiable homicides - self defense or police shootings
- kbutler 7y ago
  If the primary source of gun deaths is suicide/accident, does it make sense to put limits on "assault rifles"? Do background checks help prevent suicides or accidents? On the other hand, waiting periods, permit to purchase, etc., may be more helpful in preventing suicides (or minimizing fatal suicide attempts). What were the statistics and trends in Massachusetts before the laws were in force? It's important to look at the intent and effect of proposed (and on-the-books) legislation, and at the context of statistics.
  - briandear 7y ago
    We would also need data on suicide by other means in order to make any sort of statements regarding the effect gun availability on total suicides.
    - kbutler 7y ago
      I looked for it, but there are lots of confounding factors, particularly that statistics don't really distinguish between accidental poisoning/overdose and attempted suicide by poisoning/overdose. There is a good discussion of various factors (duration of suicide crises, availability of means, opportunity to abort the attempt or be rescued, and the lethality of the mechanism). "Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date." "A number of studies have indicated that when lethal means are made less available or less deadly, suicide rates by that method decline, and frequently suicide rates overall decline. This has been demonstrated in a number of areas: bridge barriers, detoxification of domestic gas, pesticides, medication packaging, and others." https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves-lives/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/saves...

romaaeterna 7y ago

Yours is the wrong citation. See my other post for the correct exemption. Boston is your big city, right? It had 56 people murdered in 2018. Here are their pictures. https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-murders-2018 https://www.universalhub.com/2018/boston-murders-2018 As near as I can tell from the available pictures, the victims are largely or entirely black. They make up 23% of the city, according to wikipedia, or 159,754 people. So that is about 35 black victims per 100,000 black residents. In 2018, Chicago is about 40 black victims per 100,000 black residents. This is comparable to black victim rates elsewhere. I don't think that your gun rates are helping so much as the fact that you are a mostly white state without many urban centers.

i_am_proteus 7y ago
Thank you for sharing this. Seeing the faces of the victims really hammers home the reality of murder in the United States: something that's much worse for black men (and the black community) than it is for everyone else.
asmithmd1 7y ago
I believe I have the correct citation, but IANAL. The article you linked is ALL murders in Boston - not just gun murders. And I am not sure what the race of murder victims has to do with gun death rates, the race of the gun using murderer is more important... I am not saying all young white Christian men are mass murderers, but they can't deny that young white Christian men have a mass murder problem, somehow they are being radicalized.
- romaaeterna 7y ago
  I'm afraid that I unaware of evidence that mass murders are a Christian problem whatsoever. Nor does it seem to be a political "radicalization" issue, as would be similar to what the UK saw during the Irish troubles, to take one of several possible examples. But I think that people might better describe it as serious mental health epidemic of as yet poorly understood origin. (Pick your poison: drugs, social media, social climate, etc.) Some people have put forward decent ideas on how we could restrict firearms from such individuals. (I personally think that everyone purchasing a firearm should have to find a longtime acquaintance to swear under penalty of perjury that this person is fit to own a firearm. Maybe others have better ideas.) Regardless, I hope that that situation can be improved somehow.

DuskStar 7y ago

> Total coincidence - MA has the lowest gun death rate at <1/3 the national average and <1/6 some of the most dangerous states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_United_States_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_death_rates_in_the_Uni... And yet Massachusetts' murder rate of 3.2/100k/yr is right about the median for the US. Who ever would have thought? (Granted, the suicide rate of 8.8/100k/yr is pretty impressive, and some of that might be assignable to their gun control efforts)

scotty79 7y ago
Lower availability of guns does not influence murder rates (much?). Murder is when one human wants to kill another and that's not hard, humans are as dedicated as they are fragile. What availability of guns influences most are homicides. Where you don't necessarily want to kill another human but you want their stuff or you want to teach them a lesson, also accidental deaths and I think suicides (probably quickness and decisiveness draws people).
- DuskStar 7y ago
  The point was that (virtually) no one ever campaigns for gun control on the basis of reducing suicide - only murder, and often only mass shootings.