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> The present dumping ground of choice is Malaysia. Use of the term "dumping" makes me seriously question the article's storyline. Plastic garbage is not "dump

> The present dumping ground of choice is Malaysia. Use of the term "dumping" makes me seriously question the article's storyline. Plastic garbage is not "dumped" in Malaysia, it is sold to buyers in Malaysia. If you wanted to dump it it would be much cheaper to do so at source. Ref: https://discardstudies.com/2019/05/06/adam-minter-how-things-flow/ https://discardstudies.com/2019/05/06/adam-minter-how-things...

ceejayoz 7y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/09/indonesia-sends-rubbish-back-to-australia-and-says-its-too-contaminated-to-recycle https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/09/indonesi... > In May, the Malaysian government said it would return up to 100 tonnes of Australian waste because it was too contaminated to recycle. It was part of 450 tonnes of imported plastic waste it sent back to countries across the globe. Malaysia’s environment minister, Yeo Bee Yin, said the rubbish was infested with maggots and declared Malaysia would “fight back” and “not be the dumping ground of the world.”
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  Am I the only one weirded out that this story keeps coming up and that everyone seems to ignore the whole "sending people something they didn't ask for when they paid for something else" aspect? It's like someone coming to pick up your old furniture to donate to Goodwill, mixing it in with bags of dog poop and selling it to them as "mixed furniture". Of course they're going to send it back. Of course they're going to be offended that you treat them with such disrespect. But it's untrue to say "Goodwill won't take any more furniture", they just don't want the dog poop.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    I don't disagree, but the issue is that picking out "the dog poop" wrecks the cost/benefit balance of recycling vs landfilling it all.
    - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
      Is there some reason the articles never say that clearly? I don't really understand the angle they're taking. I mean this specific article actually interviews someone that's added a robot machine for sorting plastic bottles. Presumably the idea is that this is economically sound, and whether it is or not, it seems like it should have been spelled out. Feels like they wanted to leave the impression that it's uneconomic to recycle, bit didn't actually have facts to back that up.
      - shioyama 7y ago
        If you're interested in this topic I highly recommend Adam Minter as better source on this stuff. He adopts a strictly economic perspective on the recycling trade which makes way more sense. https://www.amazon.com/Junkyard-Planet-Travels-Billion-Dollar-Trash/dp/1608197913 https://www.amazon.com/Junkyard-Planet-Travels-Billion-Dolla...
  - shioyama 7y ago
    This is exactly what I was going to point out. Sending something that the buyer didn't ask for is fraud, and should be treated as such. That doesn't mean that all (or even most) such transactions are fraud.
chewz 7y ago
> Plastic garbage is not "dumped" in Malaysia, it is sold to buyers in Malaysia. It is sold to some businesses in Malaysia who will then dump it. This is how they make quick money.
- shioyama 7y ago
  Ok, please explain why in the world businesses in Malaysia would buy garbage just to dump it? That doesn't make ecomonic sense. In fact (prior to the ban at least) there was a huge industry in China recycling plastics. It's not pretty stuff, but let's not pretend people were buying plastics just to throw them out. Look up the story of We'nan County for example. From what I've heard the buyers in China have just moved to other places like Malaysia to continue the same business. They are buying plastics to recycle them and make money off that. It's nasty stuff but it is economically motivated.
  - chewz 7y ago
    Because it is an opportunity for quick arbitrage - you get paid to accept trash shipment, you pretend to process it (on paper) and then you simply incinerate or dump trash. In a country like Malaysia or Thailand with lax regulation, corruption and poor enviroment standards it is an opportunity for some and problem for all. https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-malaysia-plastic-2018-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-malaysia-plastic-20... > Some attributed it to the periodic air pollution Malaysia suffers when farmers burn crops in neighboring Indonesia. But Pua, a chemist, knew better. Over the next several weeks, she and a few others traced the smell to a growing number of factories that had cropped up on the outskirts of the town of 30,000 and were taking in truckloads of plastic. Some of the crude facilities were tucked into oil palm plantations or surrounded by walls of tin sheets. Others made no effort to evade notice. > Driving home from dinner one evening in June, Pua saw smoke rising from a large plant right along the highway — and was hit with that same noxious odor. “They were doing it every day,” she said. “We felt helpless.” > In July, after months of ignoring her complaints, local officials shut down 34 illegal recycling plants in Kuala Langat, prompting a national outcry that resulted in a three-month pause on new plastic waste imports. About 17,000 metric tons of waste was seized, but is too contaminated to be recycled. Most of it is likely to end up in a landfill.

ceejayoz 7y ago

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/09/indonesia-sends-rubbish-back-to-australia-and-says-its-too-contaminated-to-recycle https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/09/indonesi... > In May, the Malaysian government said it would return up to 100 tonnes of Australian waste because it was too contaminated to recycle. It was part of 450 tonnes of imported plastic waste it sent back to countries across the globe. Malaysia’s environment minister, Yeo Bee Yin, said the rubbish was infested with maggots and declared Malaysia would “fight back” and “not be the dumping ground of the world.”

ZeroGravitas 7y ago
Am I the only one weirded out that this story keeps coming up and that everyone seems to ignore the whole "sending people something they didn't ask for when they paid for something else" aspect? It's like someone coming to pick up your old furniture to donate to Goodwill, mixing it in with bags of dog poop and selling it to them as "mixed furniture". Of course they're going to send it back. Of course they're going to be offended that you treat them with such disrespect. But it's untrue to say "Goodwill won't take any more furniture", they just don't want the dog poop.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  I don't disagree, but the issue is that picking out "the dog poop" wrecks the cost/benefit balance of recycling vs landfilling it all.
  - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
    Is there some reason the articles never say that clearly? I don't really understand the angle they're taking. I mean this specific article actually interviews someone that's added a robot machine for sorting plastic bottles. Presumably the idea is that this is economically sound, and whether it is or not, it seems like it should have been spelled out. Feels like they wanted to leave the impression that it's uneconomic to recycle, bit didn't actually have facts to back that up.
    - shioyama 7y ago
      If you're interested in this topic I highly recommend Adam Minter as better source on this stuff. He adopts a strictly economic perspective on the recycling trade which makes way more sense. https://www.amazon.com/Junkyard-Planet-Travels-Billion-Dollar-Trash/dp/1608197913 https://www.amazon.com/Junkyard-Planet-Travels-Billion-Dolla...
- shioyama 7y ago
  This is exactly what I was going to point out. Sending something that the buyer didn't ask for is fraud, and should be treated as such. That doesn't mean that all (or even most) such transactions are fraud.

chewz 7y ago

> Plastic garbage is not "dumped" in Malaysia, it is sold to buyers in Malaysia. It is sold to some businesses in Malaysia who will then dump it. This is how they make quick money.

shioyama 7y ago
Ok, please explain why in the world businesses in Malaysia would buy garbage just to dump it? That doesn't make ecomonic sense. In fact (prior to the ban at least) there was a huge industry in China recycling plastics. It's not pretty stuff, but let's not pretend people were buying plastics just to throw them out. Look up the story of We'nan County for example. From what I've heard the buyers in China have just moved to other places like Malaysia to continue the same business. They are buying plastics to recycle them and make money off that. It's nasty stuff but it is economically motivated.
- chewz 7y ago
  Because it is an opportunity for quick arbitrage - you get paid to accept trash shipment, you pretend to process it (on paper) and then you simply incinerate or dump trash. In a country like Malaysia or Thailand with lax regulation, corruption and poor enviroment standards it is an opportunity for some and problem for all. https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-malaysia-plastic-2018-story.html https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-malaysia-plastic-20... > Some attributed it to the periodic air pollution Malaysia suffers when farmers burn crops in neighboring Indonesia. But Pua, a chemist, knew better. Over the next several weeks, she and a few others traced the smell to a growing number of factories that had cropped up on the outskirts of the town of 30,000 and were taking in truckloads of plastic. Some of the crude facilities were tucked into oil palm plantations or surrounded by walls of tin sheets. Others made no effort to evade notice. > Driving home from dinner one evening in June, Pua saw smoke rising from a large plant right along the highway — and was hit with that same noxious odor. “They were doing it every day,” she said. “We felt helpless.” > In July, after months of ignoring her complaints, local officials shut down 34 illegal recycling plants in Kuala Langat, prompting a national outcry that resulted in a three-month pause on new plastic waste imports. About 17,000 metric tons of waste was seized, but is too contaminated to be recycled. Most of it is likely to end up in a landfill.