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Has anyone seen good coverage of WeWork as an investment? All my favorite finance meme accounts are tearing this to shreds too. The only people I’ve heard be

Has anyone seen good coverage of WeWork as an investment? All my favorite finance meme accounts are tearing this to shreds too. The only people I’ve heard be excited are the WeWork employees, and you can practically never get the employees to have a counter view on this even if they don’t get stock. I dont mean in like “I dont want to rock the boat” way, but more in an common ignorance of personal finance let alone investing way. They also arent really the investing class, so far they dont really understand the memes aside from the comments like “is this company run by Congress?” Not WeWork specific they just arent investors or financial professionals. What do the “members” think? Is there any “yes I cant wait to align my interests with my favorite coworking space by investing in their future growth” sentiment? Im just not around those people so I dont know WSJ and Bloomberg have been ripping on this for over a year, and now with the S-1 out Hackernews and finmeme accounts are ripping it too Think they’ll retract the S-1 and stay private?

40acres 7y ago
Check out the Odd Lots podcast episode: The Bullish Case for WeWork. Personally, I don't see it -- but capital is so cheap and WW brand so strong that they may be able to pull a rabbit out in a downturn.
- addicted 7y ago
  It’s the only strong brand in a massive market, real estate.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    It may be the only strong brand in co-working spaces, but I find it harder to believe it's the only strong brand in real estate. It's obviously a more visible brand for people working in a particular area of the tech industry than most real estate brands, but that's a different issue than brand strength in real estate.
projektfu 7y ago
The problem they have is that you can’t save this business by clapping louder. Either it starts generating profits or it’ll go out of business. I am just personally surprised that Adam Neumann isn’t getting the kind of negativity Elizabeth Holmes got. Perhaps after it goes down, who knows, but his activity has been sufficiently shady that it should be drawing more fire.
- treis 7y ago
  Holmes was deceptive in her fraud and flat out lied to investors. Neumann's fraud is disclosed and well documented. No skin off my back if he pockets hundreds of millions of Saudi money.
  - projektfu 7y ago
    I’ve got no idea what he’s said to investors but it sounds like they’ve been repeatedly surprised by things like his real estate holdings and ownership of the trademark.
    - sroussey 7y ago
      Curious for evidence of this.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Holmes was deceptive in her fraud That's kind of true-by-definition; you can't have fraud without being deceptive.
    - Someone 7y ago
      And, from that, it follows that ”Neumann's fraud is disclosed and well documented” cannot be correct. If they (clearly) disclose all they do, it can’t be fraud.
- DINKDINK 7y ago
  It appears that We has a functional product they're delivering to buying customers; but at severely-questionable future profitability. Theranos claimed they had a product that achieved results it couldn't, customers they didn't have. It seems the difference is between profit viability (We) and fraud (Theranos).
goatinaboat 7y ago
Think they’ll retract the S-1 and stay private? It's not clear what that would mean for SoftBank but it can't be good. All VC funds are looking for an exit, Vision Fund is no different.
adrianN 7y ago
I work in a Wework office and wouldn't touch Wework as an investment with a ten mile pole. It's just an office. A bit more expensive than other coworking spaces. There literally nothing special about it, except that it never turned a profit. I like that they at least pretend to care about the environment. I'd like it better if they actually did things to lower the energy use of their buildings.
philwelch 7y ago
It’s likely that the company itself is weirdly cult-like and actively manages out any employees who don’t drink the kool-aid. The vegan thing is a small hint to this.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  I dont know about that, it doesn’t seem any different than any startup and private company in this space like ones I’ve worked for where I talk privately with employees about what we will do with our stock options. The metrics employees consider are just very far removed from anything that matters for making shareholders money. Its like listening to the most retail of retail investors, where sentiment is “hey I know that brand and dont hate them” invest And yes, sure, sprinkle a little vested interest on top of that, and possible career derailment if your colleagues hear you till you get a perfect storm of no objective reasoning. The issuer side of an offering like this is always a good hand, the employee side is decent too unless you have to buy your own stock options.
  - cult_of_we 7y ago
    Throwaway (but at least the name is apropos). I worked as a software engineer at WeWork for a bit and no other startup or tech company has come close to the cultishness that Neumann is trying to cultivate there. Some highlights from my brief time there: - mandatory spiritual guidance at a company summit where the “guru” enforced the importance of one’s place in the organization - mandatory attendance at “Summer Camp”, a weekend long music festival with excessive drinking - mandatory attendance of a talk led by Neumann and transferred to Deepak _fucking_ Chopra at Summer Camp - the Meetup founder displaying a picture of the twin towers, post plane crash, on a giant screen at Madison a Square Garden during a company summit And these were just the noteworthy events that rose above the background noise of “What insane thing will Adam Neumann say this time?” each time an all-hands was held.
    - 6nf 7y ago
      Are the employees drinking the koolaid? What do you think will happen to We?
streetcat1 7y ago
if all the news are bearish, it would probably pop up.
perlgeek 7y ago
> Think they’ll retract the S-1 and stay private? And get their next cash infusion from where, exactly? If they manage to find even more private investors, that might be an option, but would probably hurt their image more than the negative press around the S-1. Or try to become profitable really quickly?
skewart 7y ago
I work out of a WeWork location sometimes. I don't like the product and only work out of WeWorks because I need to for my job. I would never choose to be a "member" on my own. Here's why I'm not a fan: The interiors are cheesey, badly designed, and generally seem poorly built (things are janky and break way too easily). It's often hard to find a good place to work in the common areas - pop music is blasting in the main common areas and the few phone booths and quiet corners are often full (people sometimes just work in phone booths, which is annoying). The fact that you have to pay to use conference rooms (at least with my company's contract) and you have to pay for granola bars and other snacks feels kinda nickel-and-dimey. (There is free coffee, and free beer but during the workday I'm not usually looking to drink a pint.) Also there's a theme of forced happiness everywhere (the mugs all say "do what you love" or "always half full"), which feels at best like vapid corporate fluff and at worst kinda cult-like, but either way it's mildly off-putting. Finally, they often invite salespeople from different companies to set up tables in the common area to sell/advertise random stuff, which isn't that big a deal but monetizing their tenants' attention during their work day kinda seems at odds with "building a community" and "elevating consciousness" and all. I like the concept of a global coworking space network. I'm just not a fan of WeWork's implementation. My bet is that in ten years WeWork will end up a bit like Groupon is today - still going, but far from the world-changing force they were once hyped to be. Of course, a lot of weird stuff can happen and maybe they'll end up dominating the worlwide office market, or maybe they'll flame out spectacularly in a couple of years.

40acres 7y ago

Check out the Odd Lots podcast episode: The Bullish Case for WeWork. Personally, I don't see it -- but capital is so cheap and WW brand so strong that they may be able to pull a rabbit out in a downturn.

addicted 7y ago
It’s the only strong brand in a massive market, real estate.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  It may be the only strong brand in co-working spaces, but I find it harder to believe it's the only strong brand in real estate. It's obviously a more visible brand for people working in a particular area of the tech industry than most real estate brands, but that's a different issue than brand strength in real estate.

projektfu 7y ago

The problem they have is that you can’t save this business by clapping louder. Either it starts generating profits or it’ll go out of business. I am just personally surprised that Adam Neumann isn’t getting the kind of negativity Elizabeth Holmes got. Perhaps after it goes down, who knows, but his activity has been sufficiently shady that it should be drawing more fire.

treis 7y ago
Holmes was deceptive in her fraud and flat out lied to investors. Neumann's fraud is disclosed and well documented. No skin off my back if he pockets hundreds of millions of Saudi money.
- projektfu 7y ago
  I’ve got no idea what he’s said to investors but it sounds like they’ve been repeatedly surprised by things like his real estate holdings and ownership of the trademark.
  - sroussey 7y ago
    Curious for evidence of this.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Holmes was deceptive in her fraud That's kind of true-by-definition; you can't have fraud without being deceptive.
  - Someone 7y ago
    And, from that, it follows that ”Neumann's fraud is disclosed and well documented” cannot be correct. If they (clearly) disclose all they do, it can’t be fraud.
DINKDINK 7y ago
It appears that We has a functional product they're delivering to buying customers; but at severely-questionable future profitability. Theranos claimed they had a product that achieved results it couldn't, customers they didn't have. It seems the difference is between profit viability (We) and fraud (Theranos).

goatinaboat 7y ago

Think they’ll retract the S-1 and stay private? It's not clear what that would mean for SoftBank but it can't be good. All VC funds are looking for an exit, Vision Fund is no different.

adrianN 7y ago

I work in a Wework office and wouldn't touch Wework as an investment with a ten mile pole. It's just an office. A bit more expensive than other coworking spaces. There literally nothing special about it, except that it never turned a profit. I like that they at least pretend to care about the environment. I'd like it better if they actually did things to lower the energy use of their buildings.

philwelch 7y ago

It’s likely that the company itself is weirdly cult-like and actively manages out any employees who don’t drink the kool-aid. The vegan thing is a small hint to this.

rolltiide 7y ago
I dont know about that, it doesn’t seem any different than any startup and private company in this space like ones I’ve worked for where I talk privately with employees about what we will do with our stock options. The metrics employees consider are just very far removed from anything that matters for making shareholders money. Its like listening to the most retail of retail investors, where sentiment is “hey I know that brand and dont hate them” invest And yes, sure, sprinkle a little vested interest on top of that, and possible career derailment if your colleagues hear you till you get a perfect storm of no objective reasoning. The issuer side of an offering like this is always a good hand, the employee side is decent too unless you have to buy your own stock options.
- cult_of_we 7y ago
  Throwaway (but at least the name is apropos). I worked as a software engineer at WeWork for a bit and no other startup or tech company has come close to the cultishness that Neumann is trying to cultivate there. Some highlights from my brief time there: - mandatory spiritual guidance at a company summit where the “guru” enforced the importance of one’s place in the organization - mandatory attendance at “Summer Camp”, a weekend long music festival with excessive drinking - mandatory attendance of a talk led by Neumann and transferred to Deepak _fucking_ Chopra at Summer Camp - the Meetup founder displaying a picture of the twin towers, post plane crash, on a giant screen at Madison a Square Garden during a company summit And these were just the noteworthy events that rose above the background noise of “What insane thing will Adam Neumann say this time?” each time an all-hands was held.
  - 6nf 7y ago
    Are the employees drinking the koolaid? What do you think will happen to We?

streetcat1 7y ago

if all the news are bearish, it would probably pop up.

perlgeek 7y ago

> Think they’ll retract the S-1 and stay private? And get their next cash infusion from where, exactly? If they manage to find even more private investors, that might be an option, but would probably hurt their image more than the negative press around the S-1. Or try to become profitable really quickly?

skewart 7y ago

I work out of a WeWork location sometimes. I don't like the product and only work out of WeWorks because I need to for my job. I would never choose to be a "member" on my own. Here's why I'm not a fan: The interiors are cheesey, badly designed, and generally seem poorly built (things are janky and break way too easily). It's often hard to find a good place to work in the common areas - pop music is blasting in the main common areas and the few phone booths and quiet corners are often full (people sometimes just work in phone booths, which is annoying). The fact that you have to pay to use conference rooms (at least with my company's contract) and you have to pay for granola bars and other snacks feels kinda nickel-and-dimey. (There is free coffee, and free beer but during the workday I'm not usually looking to drink a pint.) Also there's a theme of forced happiness everywhere (the mugs all say "do what you love" or "always half full"), which feels at best like vapid corporate fluff and at worst kinda cult-like, but either way it's mildly off-putting. Finally, they often invite salespeople from different companies to set up tables in the common area to sell/advertise random stuff, which isn't that big a deal but monetizing their tenants' attention during their work day kinda seems at odds with "building a community" and "elevating consciousness" and all. I like the concept of a global coworking space network. I'm just not a fan of WeWork's implementation. My bet is that in ten years WeWork will end up a bit like Groupon is today - still going, but far from the world-changing force they were once hyped to be. Of course, a lot of weird stuff can happen and maybe they'll end up dominating the worlwide office market, or maybe they'll flame out spectacularly in a couple of years.