4 ms·

I guess you'll have to take my word for it that I'm not talking about the obviously silly ways of making developers accountable (like LOC or tickets closed.) I'

by axiom 16y ago

I guess you'll have to take my word for it that I'm not talking about the obviously silly ways of making developers accountable (like LOC or tickets closed.) I'm a developer, so I know that typically managers who don't know how to code shouldn't be managing coders. What I'm talking about is developers who demand above market wages, and shorter hours (than lawyers, or doctors, or automotive engineers etc.) and less commitment, and more equity. There are a lot of these guys out there, and a lot of people on here who think like that. I'm saying that's a childish, entitled attitude that ignores the reality of starting and building a company. Sometimes you can't have it all.

warren_s 16y ago
Unless you're hiring someone fresh out of school, they've likely had some experience in the job market and base their expectations of salary and conditions on that. It's not really a sense of entitlement if I can point to similar positions x, y, and z and ask why you're not offering the same, is it? Expectations, whether or not you find them realistic, are not created in a vacuum. I can't pay my mortgage or feed my kids on a "pre-money equity-only" job. Taking a deep pay cut for a stake in NewCo? Been there before - at the end of the day, 5% of nothing is still nothing. If you're looking for someone who is willing to take a big risk for very little (immediate) reward, you aren't looking for an employee, you're looking for another co-founder.
- axiom 16y ago
  I totally agree with you. That's exactly my goal in hiring early employees - they are de facto co-founders that should get a ton of equity and a livable salary. If someone wants 90k and 40 hour work weeks they should go work at Microsoft or IBM. That's not how successful startups are built. You need to be ultra frugal, extremely dedicated (to the point of obsession) and have lots of exposure to the up side.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

by axiom 16y ago

warren_s 16y ago

Unless you're hiring someone fresh out of school, they've likely had some experience in the job market and base their expectations of salary and conditions on that. It's not really a sense of entitlement if I can point to similar positions x, y, and z and ask why you're not offering the same, is it? Expectations, whether or not you find them realistic, are not created in a vacuum. I can't pay my mortgage or feed my kids on a "pre-money equity-only" job. Taking a deep pay cut for a stake in NewCo? Been there before - at the end of the day, 5% of nothing is still nothing. If you're looking for someone who is willing to take a big risk for very little (immediate) reward, you aren't looking for an employee, you're looking for another co-founder.

axiom 16y ago
I totally agree with you. That's exactly my goal in hiring early employees - they are de facto co-founders that should get a ton of equity and a livable salary. If someone wants 90k and 40 hour work weeks they should go work at Microsoft or IBM. That's not how successful startups are built. You need to be ultra frugal, extremely dedicated (to the point of obsession) and have lots of exposure to the up side.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]