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Do we have accurate breathalyzers for alcohol? AFAIK, the manufacturers aggressively resist requirements to publish their source code or calibrations for testi

Do we have accurate breathalyzers for alcohol? AFAIK, the manufacturers aggressively resist requirements to publish their source code or calibrations for testing. Also, AIUI, the devices require recalibration for accuracy, and it's not clear that police stations perform such maintenance. No idea how rampant this is, every system will have flaws. But I question whether we can use the alcohol breathalyzer example without acknowledging there are significant unanswered questions w/r/t accuracy.

ac29 7y ago
If breathalyzers were inaccurate, uncalibrated, or unmaintained it would be trivial to get any conviction relying on their measurements thrown out.
- monocasa 7y ago
  What makes you say that?
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  Only if you're allowed to test the devices in question, and the courts believe your experts over the manufacturers. This doesn't prove my point, but manufacturers do aggressively fight against researchers identifying flaws in their products. Given the high stakes (+ the fact this isn't a security issue, really), it seems like a major smell to me. There are reports out there of people convicted, who are blocked from examining the devices used as the primary piece of evidence against them. Also, after years of effort to discredit breathalyzer results, convictions ARE being overturned regularly. NJ overturns > 27k convictions because of breathalyzer issues - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/nyregion/nj-dwi-convictions-court.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/nyregion/nj-dwi-convictio... MS judge suspends admission of breathalyzer evidence -- https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/10/breathalyzers-temporarily-not-admissible-in-court-judge-rules/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/10/breathalyzers-tempor... More relevant info - https://www.zdnet.com/article/draeger-breathalyzer-breath-test-convictions/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/draeger-breathalyzer-breath-te...
- jayd16 7y ago
  Nothing about the court system is trivial.
- fragmede 7y ago
  Mind you, that's not unprecedented. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/buggy-breathalyzer-code-reflects-importance-of-source-review/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/buggy-breathalyz...
Tade0 7y ago
A friend of a friend works at a facility which calibrates + certifies police breathalysers and by his account below 0,015% BAC the result is garbage, so some countries choose to set the limit at 0,02% which is enough for the devices to indicate properly most of the time.

ac29 7y ago

If breathalyzers were inaccurate, uncalibrated, or unmaintained it would be trivial to get any conviction relying on their measurements thrown out.

monocasa 7y ago
What makes you say that?
edmundsauto 7y ago
Only if you're allowed to test the devices in question, and the courts believe your experts over the manufacturers. This doesn't prove my point, but manufacturers do aggressively fight against researchers identifying flaws in their products. Given the high stakes (+ the fact this isn't a security issue, really), it seems like a major smell to me. There are reports out there of people convicted, who are blocked from examining the devices used as the primary piece of evidence against them. Also, after years of effort to discredit breathalyzer results, convictions ARE being overturned regularly. NJ overturns > 27k convictions because of breathalyzer issues - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/nyregion/nj-dwi-convictions-court.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/nyregion/nj-dwi-convictio... MS judge suspends admission of breathalyzer evidence -- https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/10/breathalyzers-temporarily-not-admissible-in-court-judge-rules/ https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/01/10/breathalyzers-tempor... More relevant info - https://www.zdnet.com/article/draeger-breathalyzer-breath-test-convictions/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/draeger-breathalyzer-breath-te...
jayd16 7y ago
Nothing about the court system is trivial.
fragmede 7y ago
Mind you, that's not unprecedented. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/buggy-breathalyzer-code-reflects-importance-of-source-review/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/05/buggy-breathalyz...

Tade0 7y ago

A friend of a friend works at a facility which calibrates + certifies police breathalysers and by his account below 0,015% BAC the result is garbage, so some countries choose to set the limit at 0,02% which is enough for the devices to indicate properly most of the time.