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I am happy these changes were pushed forward before a politician like Doug Ford got into power as I think we know these would have been reversed as we saw with

by Fogest 7y ago

I am happy these changes were pushed forward before a politician like Doug Ford got into power as I think we know these would have been reversed as we saw with the carbon tax.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Probably these changes are what ultimately caused the liberal gov't to collapse as the closing of the coal plants (along with a myriad other factors, including some the previous conservative gov't are at fault for) at least indirectly led to higher electricity costs and the stupid gas plant scandal, and those things were used as a battering ram by the opposition in the last 2-3 provincial elections, until they finally won.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  If only you could charge the government for giving your kid asthma, to give a sound comparison.
Gibbon1 7y ago
A carbon tax to me seems like something designed to generate political blowback. The problem is a carbon tax punishes people for decisions they made previously where they didn't have a choice. With the hope that they'll suck it up and find a way out somehow. It's stupid to assume that 'somehow' isn't going to be toss those dicks out on their ear.
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  Ontario never had a carbon tax, it had cap&trade in the same market as California and Quebec. Most consumers never noticed its introduction. But the new idiots in power certainly made political hay about how they were going to drop gas prices by removing it. Turns out it had almost no effect on gas and utility prices but a huge effect on the province's budget, along with axing dozens of environmental initiatives in the province. And the federal gov't has now imposed a carbon tax to replace it.
  - ecpottinger 7y ago
    In fact I saw a big drop for a few months, since then the price keeps creeping up. Before DF, I saw $1.25 a liter, after he got in it fell to $0.98 a liter and since then it has slowly increased. Right now it is $1.19 where I am I expect it will be back to $1.25 before winter.
    - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
      The drop was due to other factors, price of oil fell, again.
- ericd 7y ago
  It might be politically unpopular, but it's the only really holistic way I've seen to get the market to prioritize carbon emissions and make the best tradeoffs there. On the plus side, politically, a large carbon tax would make it more competitive to manufacture locally, since it would become much more expensive to ship things via container ship/air. Globalism is largely a result of the cost of running a global logistics network plummeting.
- thinkcontext 7y ago
  While true, its also the case that any other way of doing it is economically worse. The best way to do it is to start the price off low but telegraph that the price is going to go up in the future. Then people know when they need to get a new car/water heater/fridge to get the more efficient model. Probably even more important is industry and investors, they'll know not to invest in subdivisions from bulldozed farmland but instead build denser apartment buildings close to public transportation or to give more money to R&D to make their next model of car/water heater/fridge more efficient.
knowaveragejoe 7y ago
The public perception of the carbon tax in Canada is just saddening. In a poll, 80% of Canadians responded that Canada's carbon tax had increased their cost of living. The poll took place two weeks before Canada's carbon tax was introduced. https://abacusdata.ca/will-climate-change-be-a-ballot-box-question-in-2019/ https://abacusdata.ca/will-climate-change-be-a-ballot-box-qu...
- SECProto 7y ago
  And a federal leader uses it to campaign in provinces where the carbon tax doesn't even apply. Quite frustrating.

by Fogest 7y ago

I am happy these changes were pushed forward before a politician like Doug Ford got into power as I think we know these would have been reversed as we saw with the carbon tax.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

Probably these changes are what ultimately caused the liberal gov't to collapse as the closing of the coal plants (along with a myriad other factors, including some the previous conservative gov't are at fault for) at least indirectly led to higher electricity costs and the stupid gas plant scandal, and those things were used as a battering ram by the opposition in the last 2-3 provincial elections, until they finally won.

CalRobert 7y ago
If only you could charge the government for giving your kid asthma, to give a sound comparison.

Gibbon1 7y ago

A carbon tax to me seems like something designed to generate political blowback. The problem is a carbon tax punishes people for decisions they made previously where they didn't have a choice. With the hope that they'll suck it up and find a way out somehow. It's stupid to assume that 'somehow' isn't going to be toss those dicks out on their ear.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Ontario never had a carbon tax, it had cap&trade in the same market as California and Quebec. Most consumers never noticed its introduction. But the new idiots in power certainly made political hay about how they were going to drop gas prices by removing it. Turns out it had almost no effect on gas and utility prices but a huge effect on the province's budget, along with axing dozens of environmental initiatives in the province. And the federal gov't has now imposed a carbon tax to replace it.
- ecpottinger 7y ago
  In fact I saw a big drop for a few months, since then the price keeps creeping up. Before DF, I saw $1.25 a liter, after he got in it fell to $0.98 a liter and since then it has slowly increased. Right now it is $1.19 where I am I expect it will be back to $1.25 before winter.
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    The drop was due to other factors, price of oil fell, again.
ericd 7y ago
It might be politically unpopular, but it's the only really holistic way I've seen to get the market to prioritize carbon emissions and make the best tradeoffs there. On the plus side, politically, a large carbon tax would make it more competitive to manufacture locally, since it would become much more expensive to ship things via container ship/air. Globalism is largely a result of the cost of running a global logistics network plummeting.
thinkcontext 7y ago
While true, its also the case that any other way of doing it is economically worse. The best way to do it is to start the price off low but telegraph that the price is going to go up in the future. Then people know when they need to get a new car/water heater/fridge to get the more efficient model. Probably even more important is industry and investors, they'll know not to invest in subdivisions from bulldozed farmland but instead build denser apartment buildings close to public transportation or to give more money to R&D to make their next model of car/water heater/fridge more efficient.

knowaveragejoe 7y ago

The public perception of the carbon tax in Canada is just saddening. In a poll, 80% of Canadians responded that Canada's carbon tax had increased their cost of living. The poll took place two weeks before Canada's carbon tax was introduced. https://abacusdata.ca/will-climate-change-be-a-ballot-box-question-in-2019/ https://abacusdata.ca/will-climate-change-be-a-ballot-box-qu...

SECProto 7y ago
And a federal leader uses it to campaign in provinces where the carbon tax doesn't even apply. Quite frustrating.