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I think it's really difficult to see this as a non American, especially from a nation has homogeneous as Norway. The question must be asked: why is American pol

I think it's really difficult to see this as a non American, especially from a nation has homogeneous as Norway. The question must be asked: why is American policing so brutal? Why is the criminal justice system geared towards punishment instead of rehabilitation? Why are so many members of Congress former prosecutors? Why did the 13th amendment -- which abolished slavery, make an exception for those convicted of a crime?

thaumasiotes 7y ago
> Why did the 13th amendment -- which abolished slavery, make an exception for those convicted of a crime? Because conscripted labor was an independent tradition going back thousands of years. Compare the legal status of compelling people to work on the roads. There was also an exception for the military, though that wasn't written into the 13th amendment.
username90 7y ago
> as homogeneous as Norway I don't understand why this would matter. Why would homogeneity of the population have anything to do with how many people the police kill of the privileged race? Does the existence of black people in America increase the number of whites killed by police? When we compare crime and such between USA and Europe you always say "But USA is so diverse!", isn't that racism? I mean, you are basically saying that you have to live with crime, murder and such when you have a diverse population. Or do I misunderstand you?
- 40acres 7y ago
  It's my belief that racist discriminatory policies have led to an "underclass" of people, who are primarily minorities, that are criminalized more often and deprived of services that would ultimately reduce crime. So yes, due to discrimination, the diversity of the US contributes to higher crime rates. There was a study recently produced that showed that simply installing street lights in a neighborhood reduced crime dramatically, when you take into consideration that installation would be funded by local property taxes, and that majority minority neighborhoods have lower property values, partly due to post war discriminatory housing policy, it is clear that there is somewhat of a self fulfilling cycle here.
- _iyig 7y ago
  Homogeneity generally engenders more trust. More trust generally means less crime. This effect can be observed across the world. There are benefits to diversity, of course, but there are also downsides. Iraq, Afghanistan, India, Bosnia, and and Burma have all been riven by ethnic conflict as a result of their diversity, to give a few examples. The USA (and now also the UK, and some other Western European countries) are outliers when it comes to peaceful diversification, aka large-scale migration, and even there I would say the experiment has yet to deliver a conclusive result.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > Homogeneity generally engenders more trust. Note that studies have confirmed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and...
  - lkjhdcba 7y ago
    What do you mean by homogeneity? Do you mean as opposed to heterogeneity such as what is found in the many different cultures, peoples and language across Swiss cantons or German landers, or is it really just "people looking different from one another"?
    - _iyig 7y ago
      I would refer you to the Putnam study from another comment, which defines homogeneity/heterogeneity in terms of ethnicity. Certainly ethnicity is a fluid concept. The language, value system, and cultural context of a Texan may differ from that of a Minnesotan. However, I think we can agree that your average Texan or Minnesotan will likely have a greater common understanding if paired together than with your average Swiss or German person.
      - lkjhdcba 7y ago
        Your study is based in the States, which has a long history of segregating cultures and even language according to ethnic lines. On the other hand, I mean is that both Switzerland and Germany have a diversity of peoples, cultures and languages (e.g. Switzerland itself has 4 official languages and German has a myriad of dialects) and many citizens of these countries consider themselves pretty diverse in that regard though they are mostly white, but is that what people mean by "diversity" when they talk about "population heterogeneity"? Or is it just "diversity is when people have different skin tones and the more skin tones there are the more diverse it is"?
- throwaway23461 7y ago
  Wow. I never commented I HN before, but I just have to now: Bias and prejudice IS human nature. It has nothing to do with racism. People can and do naturally discrimate on all sorts of differences like class, nationality, skin color, etc. I seen it first hand growing up in a almost completely homogenous society how any visible difference increases distrust and tension. Mind you, this is all natural human behavior, but it doesn't always make it right. So it's completely natural that a country as diverse as America would automatically balkanize itself along class, national, and racial lines.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> Why did the 13th amendment -- which abolished slavery, make an exception for those convicted of a crime? Because conscripted labor was an independent tradition going back thousands of years. Compare the legal status of compelling people to work on the roads. There was also an exception for the military, though that wasn't written into the 13th amendment.

username90 7y ago

> as homogeneous as Norway I don't understand why this would matter. Why would homogeneity of the population have anything to do with how many people the police kill of the privileged race? Does the existence of black people in America increase the number of whites killed by police? When we compare crime and such between USA and Europe you always say "But USA is so diverse!", isn't that racism? I mean, you are basically saying that you have to live with crime, murder and such when you have a diverse population. Or do I misunderstand you?

40acres 7y ago
It's my belief that racist discriminatory policies have led to an "underclass" of people, who are primarily minorities, that are criminalized more often and deprived of services that would ultimately reduce crime. So yes, due to discrimination, the diversity of the US contributes to higher crime rates. There was a study recently produced that showed that simply installing street lights in a neighborhood reduced crime dramatically, when you take into consideration that installation would be funded by local property taxes, and that majority minority neighborhoods have lower property values, partly due to post war discriminatory housing policy, it is clear that there is somewhat of a self fulfilling cycle here.
_iyig 7y ago
Homogeneity generally engenders more trust. More trust generally means less crime. This effect can be observed across the world. There are benefits to diversity, of course, but there are also downsides. Iraq, Afghanistan, India, Bosnia, and and Burma have all been riven by ethnic conflict as a result of their diversity, to give a few examples. The USA (and now also the UK, and some other Western European countries) are outliers when it comes to peaceful diversification, aka large-scale migration, and even there I would say the experiment has yet to deliver a conclusive result.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > Homogeneity generally engenders more trust. Note that studies have confirmed this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and...
- lkjhdcba 7y ago
  What do you mean by homogeneity? Do you mean as opposed to heterogeneity such as what is found in the many different cultures, peoples and language across Swiss cantons or German landers, or is it really just "people looking different from one another"?
  - _iyig 7y ago
    I would refer you to the Putnam study from another comment, which defines homogeneity/heterogeneity in terms of ethnicity. Certainly ethnicity is a fluid concept. The language, value system, and cultural context of a Texan may differ from that of a Minnesotan. However, I think we can agree that your average Texan or Minnesotan will likely have a greater common understanding if paired together than with your average Swiss or German person.
    - lkjhdcba 7y ago
      Your study is based in the States, which has a long history of segregating cultures and even language according to ethnic lines. On the other hand, I mean is that both Switzerland and Germany have a diversity of peoples, cultures and languages (e.g. Switzerland itself has 4 official languages and German has a myriad of dialects) and many citizens of these countries consider themselves pretty diverse in that regard though they are mostly white, but is that what people mean by "diversity" when they talk about "population heterogeneity"? Or is it just "diversity is when people have different skin tones and the more skin tones there are the more diverse it is"?
throwaway23461 7y ago
Wow. I never commented I HN before, but I just have to now: Bias and prejudice IS human nature. It has nothing to do with racism. People can and do naturally discrimate on all sorts of differences like class, nationality, skin color, etc. I seen it first hand growing up in a almost completely homogenous society how any visible difference increases distrust and tension. Mind you, this is all natural human behavior, but it doesn't always make it right. So it's completely natural that a country as diverse as America would automatically balkanize itself along class, national, and racial lines.